Judgement Seat of Christ

I agree with you. There's only one judgement. I've seen people come up with unbiblical argument for several judgements but I don't buy them. And Ma 25 is one account of the Judgement and it can't be ignored.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the *holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they also will answer *Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

I sure do! Also, when is someone going to tell us why 2 Cor 5 says we must LABOUR to be accepted of Him? And why it says we can receive for the BAD that we've done? Or why this brings the TERROR OF THE LORD? Hardly sounds like just a rewards serimony to me...

 

Most baptists believe 'judgment seat of Christ' is for saved people only. 'great white throne judgment' is for the unsaved only. But, the Bible does not saying it. In my mind, I know why what they believe it, the reason is most baptists believe judgment seat of Christ for the saved only, because they already saved through Jesus Christ by the blood, and it is for the Christians, because of security salvation doctrine purpose.

Actually, you notice many passages in the Bible mentioned about the future judgement day, these speak of our works show prove these are conditional.

I am sure that many Baptists did saying Matt 25:14-29 speak of the judgement seat of Christ, but they avoid verse 30, because it speaks of unfaithful servant shall be cast away into everlasting punishment, it is very obivously against security salvation doctrine.

Matt 25:31-46 telling us, there is very clear teach us, there is the only ONE judgement day at Lord's coming to judge both goats and sheep in THAT DAY, no other else.

I promise, I will discuss lot more about this tomorrow Thursday night, because tomorrow night is my off from work.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib: " ... these speak of our works show prove these are conditional."

No so! YOu have provided no proof.
In fact, reality is another way:
All our bad works are covered by the blood of Jesus.
Only our good works remain to be judged.
Don't you folks believe God forgets your sin thru Christ Jesus?
The good works that the unjust do are as filthy rags,
they will be judged by their evil works.
It is all through the Bible. Humans will be judged by
their works, but as i have said.

DeafPosttrib: "Matt 25:31-46 telling us, there is very clear teach us, there is the only ONE judgement day at Lord's coming to judge both goats and sheep in THAT DAY, no other else."

Actually this describes yet a third Judgement.
I told this all back on page two.
You are just now getting around to debating
what i said on page two?

 

Ed notes for the casual reader:

The anti-"pretribulation rapture"-ists
are on this Baptist board about 1 in 10.
The anti-"security of the believer"-ists
are on this Baptist board about 1 in 7.
However, about four of these folks have
ganged up on me. They obviously can spend
more time at this than i can.
I do work for a living. So please,
casual reader, don't go by repetition of
argument but by new evidence. Thank you.

 

DeafPosttrib: "Actually, you notice many passages in the Bible mentioned about the future judgement day, these speak of our works show prove these are conditional. "

Judgement is sure.
Salvation is sure.
While one might speak of un-salvation, consider the other
images of our blessed salvatioin available thru Jesus,
the CHrist:

1. Redemption -
ever hear of un-redemption (sold back into slavery?)
in the Bible?

2. Adoption into the Family of God -
Witing for the unadoption scriptures ...

3. Born again -
i did a search, un-born again is Not in the scripture

4. living forever -
Where is unliving forever mentioned?

The most loved verse in the whole Bible by
Christians is John 3:16 (the version in my head):

For God so loved the world that He gave his only
begotten Son so that whosoever believeth in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.

"Everlasting life" - God's code word meaning
Once Saved - Always Saved, the security of the believer.

BTW, at the Judgement Seat of Christ
the eternally saved persons will receive
only rewards. Jesus has taken away ALL
their sins.

- This is so good we need
a jumpin' smilie here!

 

Hi Ed,

Sorry - you misunderstand me. I believe in eternal security and a (partial) pre-trib rapture. I'm pretty sure AV1611Jim does as well. (I know deafposttrib doesn't - I've argued it with him in the Matt 25 thread). My position is that eternally secure but disobedient believers can be PUNISHED according to their WORKS at the judgement seat, and then cast away and banished for the whole duration of the millennium. Others, who are obedient, will be rewarded and reign with Christ for the entire kingdom. After the 1000 years the disobedient Christian's name will be found in the book of life, and he will enter the new heaven and earth for all eternity.

I too don't really have much time for this discussion - hopefully I will have later. But just let me point out that Jesus' death doesn't mean we can't be punished at the judgement seat. After all, God can punish believers in this life, can't he? (1 Cor 11). So why can't he punish them when he judges their works??????

 

Ed;
Just exactly where do you get the idea that christians get only good things when judged at the JOC? Please show us with overwhelming scriptural evidence.
reward, n, something that is given in return for good or evil done or received, 'recompense'
When Jesus says "My reward is with me to give to every man according as his work shall be."
Where in this verse do you find the reasoning that this is ONLY goodies for the believer?
Jim

 

As I see it, there is a judgment for Christians within the realm of sanctification but not justification.
If the "sleep" of verse 30 of the following passage is physical death (and if it isn't, what else could it be) it could have the death penalty (physical) as a result.

1 Corinthians 11:27-32
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Again concerning rewards:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

HankD

 

Sometimes we spend so much time messing with Greek, we forget English.

REWARD', v.t. a as aw. [[L. re, denoting return.]

To give in return, either good or evil.

Thou hast rewarded me good, whereas I have rewarded thee evil. 1Sam. 24.

Hence, when good is returned for good, reward signifies to repay, to recompense, to compensate. When evil or suffering is return for injury or wickedness, reward signifies to punish with just retribution, to take vengeance on, according to the nature of the case.

I will render vengeance to my enemies; and will reward them that hate me. Deut. 32.

The Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matt. 16.

In the latter passage, reward signifies to render with good and evil.

 

How can we be judged for not only what God has forgiven, but for what God does not even remember?

 

I agree that the passage deals with physical death. The question was, If God can chasten his (eternally secure) children to the point of physical death in this life, then what scriptural basis is there for the common belief that no negative rewards will be handed out at the JSOC? In other words, if (very serious and severe) chastening is to be the lot of many disobedient Christians in this life, why not after death too? What is the difference? Does death somehow magically equalize everyone and make ALL deserving of goodies? (or at least not deserving of the negative rewards and chastening that they deserved two seconds before they died.)

There is no scriptural support for the doctrine that says eternally secure Christians can only be chastened in this life. Quite the contrary, there is a mountain of scriptural evidence to show that eternally secure Christians (if disobedient) are in grave danger at the Judgment seat. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.

Lacy

 

There are different flavors for the word "judge" in the Scriptures Lorelei.

One of them is to determine the chastisement some of us receive for not constantly walking in the Spirit.
It comes out of our Father's love and not His wrath.

This is why I posted the 1 Corinthians passage.

This shows us the motive:

Hebrews 12:5-6
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

HankD

 

I tend to agree. However isn't this coming very close to the RCC doctrine of purgatory? On the other hand we shouldn't commit overkill in reaction to someone else's error.

HankD

 

Hi Lorelei!,

Welcome to the discussion. It is a different kind of judgment and a different kind of "forgetting. God chastens his children. We all agree that this is scriptural. How therefore can he chasten us for sins that are "forgotten"? The Christians in Corinth were very much saved but God said:

There are many wonderful things that a Christian receives when he is born again. Immunity from chastisement is not one of those things. We must divide the free gift of eternal kife from the REWARD of the millenial kingdom.

Lacy

 

I agree. The RCC doctrine of purgatory seems to me to be a corruption of the doctrine of Millennial exclusion. The difference being that with Purgatory, the folks sent there are not saved, but rather in a sort of twilight zone, hoping for someone to pay or pray them out. Millennial exclusion deals only with the Kingdom time period. All the people this doctrine pertains to are definitely saved and eternally secure. And for 1000 years no one is going to pay or pray them out. Purgatory in some way contributes to or effects salvation. Kingdom exclusion is a paternal chastening of those wonderfully saved and secured eternally by the blood yet disobedient in their walk after their conversion.

Lacy

 

The evidence is overwhelming, though somewhat disturbing to they who may not like the thought that perhaps it is they with whom the Father is displeased.
The Judgement Seat of Christ is for christians, to determine if they receive the reward of reigning with Him in the Kingdom or the reward of banishment during the Millenium.
If we do not heed the clear warnings throughout Scripture, particularly the New Testament, then there remains only one answer we will hear from our Savior. "Take the unprofitable servant and cast him into outer darkness". He gets no part of the Kingdom, but he will be restored at the Great White Throne.Rev. 20:12-15
Jim

 

Wow - is this a record? Three people defending millennial exclusion in the same thread?! Amazing! It seems that with God all things really ARE possible!

 

"Mr. Govett wrote a hundred years before his time, and the day will come when his works will be treasured as sifted gold." Charles H. Spurgeon

 

The problem is, Christ does NOT saying the unfaithful servant SHALL BE released out of the outer darkness in the context of Matt 25:26-30.

Obivously, Matt 25:14-30 IS judgment seat of Christ/great white throne.

Also, it does not saying 'outer darkness' is a temporary. Clear, it is a eternality punihsment place for unfaithful servants and unbelievers will suffer there after the judgment day.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!