judging others

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by massdak, Jan 30, 2003.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    i have read some post lately where some Christians are unable in my opinion to respectfully judge the condition of some in regard to their religion or salvation condition. many were afraid to judge according to the doctrine held by mother T if she was a Christian or not. some would say it is not up to me to determine if she was a Christian so they giving her the benefit of doubt said she was. i would ask those who couldn't judge her condition would they not witness to her thinking she was indeed a Christian? i believe the confusion is that many take the judge not lest ye be judged out of context, many using the liberal definition of the world. judgments need to be made all the time, you must judge your pastors sermons if it be good doctrine or not based on Gods word. you must judge what is being said in message boards regarding Christian issues and correct or defend the truth. in short my question is> is judging a Christian duty in these circumstances?
     
  2. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I am always asking people if they are saved or if they died today do they know they would go to Heaven. It's called witnessing.

    But to go around asking professing Christians that same question sounds rather pious to me; and more like a "Witch Hunt" than a heart desire to make sure that person is going to Heaven.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  3. Thankful

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    I think it depends on our understanding of the word "judge."

    One of the definitions is "a person qualified to give an opinion or decide on the relative worth of anything.

    Then the word "judged": to form an idea, opinion, or estimate about any matter, to criticize or censure or to think or suppose.

    I think when we apply this to judge not, lest ye be judged, it means "Are we really qualified to judge another person?"

    I try to define in my mind the difference between judging and having an opinion.

    I can determine if I agree with someone without judging them.

    We can have an opinion about a person's salvation, but we really cannot definitely say that they are saved or lost.

    Do you really think that a person as strong as Mother Teresa would be swayed by my beliefs?

    We can witness; we can do the best we can to live for Christ, but it is still up to the Holy Spirit to convict people.

    After reviewing the word judge, I am still going to be careful about judging.

    I think that some people are using a strong word like judge when they should be using decide. I think the key word here is are you qualified to give the opinion..... Just my opinion. [​IMG]
     
  4. romanbear

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    Hi massdak; [​IMG]
    You know I don't think that the verse you mention is taken to mean that we shouldn't judge.To me it's a warning to make our judgements fair, because we will be judge in the same manor.I always ask people if they have gone back and taken a look at the whole chapter that it's in so that it's not taken out of context and interpreted to mean something else.Usually I do this alot if I feel that what the person is saying about a particullar passage doesn't sound right. [​IMG]
    Romanbear
     
  5. Harald

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    As I see it those who say Mother Theresa was lost have made a judgment, and also those who say she was a Christian have judged.

    The one who is of the opinion that Theresa was a Christian have no bussiness coming with a "judge not" to the one judging she was lost, because the former has also judged. The question is who of the two has made a right judgment, the one having judged "negatively" (lost) or the one having judged "positively" (Theresa a Christian). The judgment must not be made out of comparing Theresa with other mortals, but righteous judgment compares her character and conduct and doctrine, beliefs etc. to the infallible word of God, especially the NT scriptures.

    As for the question of the topic starter my answer is that professing Christians are duty bound to judge righteous judgment, but the majority of professors disobey Biblical precepts that speak of such. I cannot imagine true Christians who do not judge and discern, but I know there are a whole lot of false believers who walk in utter gullibility because they do not discern and judge. And their words show they could not care less. They think such non-judgmentalism is meekness, but they do not know how the NT defines meekness.

    Harald
     
  6. Pete

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  7. Rev. G

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    Mother Teresa claimed that people of faith, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., were all "children of God" and that all would be saved. The question to ask in response, perhaps, is, "What did Jesus say?"
     
  8. Jim1999

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    I am never offended when someone asks me if I am a twice-born Christian. I am offended when the professing Christian assumes I am one.

    We must make value judgements all the time. We are not, however, to determine one's eternal status without just cause.

    When I see acts unbecoming of the Christian life exist in my assembly, I must make a judgement call when I preach about these things.

    Mother Theresa had bad theology, but she did good works. What can I say? Better presume the lost estate and witness to Christ's saving grace. Many a man has done good works. Yea, some men have shown great attributes beyond some professing Christians. Still, we are obligated to preach the gospel....to preach the whole word......and leave the rest in the hands of God. I can labour and make the boss look good, but only the boss can make the final decisions.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    [ January 30, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
     
  9. Sherrie

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    Thats good jim. Makes me wonder....why don't we ever say to people..."How are you feeling spiritually today?" We ask about their fleshly needs. Wouldn't that be a much softer, and gentler, and caring way of helping someone change if they were spiritually sick.

    Sometimes I can see me when I am spiritually sick. And I don't like that part of me. And none of us are always at our best.

    I say tell me now...so I can get to Heaven when its time....don't say I knew you were going to go to Hell, because you were not so spiritually well.

    Or how many times do we say.."boy they sure are a bunch of phonies..the way they act".

    Well this may not belong here...but my thinking this could be a softer way of helping someone...instead of just being the judge.

    Pray for me always that I stay spiritually healthy.

    Sherrie

    [ January 31, 2003, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Sherrie ]
     
  10. massdak

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    i think the mother t issue is important based on her popularity and now it seems the roman catholic church is poised to declare or make her a saint according to their doctrine. i believe the roman catholic church uses certain guide lines in order to declare someone a saint. i guess they have never read the bible which tells us all born again believers are indeed saints. the poll showed that many believe that she was a Christian but maybe many are not aware of her doctrinal stance. the poll also showed that about 10% believe abortion and homosexuality is not sin, i am curious as to what the numbers would look like 10 or 20 years from now will liberal religionist make those numbers grow?
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Oh My! That is scary! I'm afraid you might be right; but I pray that you are wrong. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  12. stubbornkelly

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    I want to get back to what Gina said about not knowing if Mother Theresa was a Christian, but believing she set a good Christian example. The poll question did refer to her being a good example of a great Christian, which I think is a perfectly defendable thing to agree with.

    I don't know that she was a Christian, any more than I know if any of you are. I won't say "yes" by default, any more than I'll say "no" on account of her Catholicism.

    But was she a good example of a great Christian, or more to the point, of what a Christian should strive toward being? Yes, I think she was.
     
  13. Artimaeus

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    It is a Christian's duty to judge (evaluate, discern), it is NOT the Christian's duty to judge (condemn to hell and/or decide eternity). When a word like judge has multiple denotations, it can result in many disagreements. Define the words and then discuss them.

    [ January 30, 2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Artimaeus ]
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    I've always reminded folks not to "judge" (as in condemn) a person, but rather be simply a "fruit inspector".

    When a person is genuinely born again, it will be demonstrable. They may be carnal or babies, but the Spirit of God will show His fruit in their lives.

    If the fruit were just good works, then I'd agree that Mother T was saved.

    But, we all know, that is NOT the fruit. Did she put her faith in Christ alone, apart from the works-oriented religion, its rites and rituals?

    Righteousness comes not from good works on the outside in, but rather from the inside out.
     
  15. Michael Estes

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    A lot of folks use the "judge not lest ye be judged" phrase as a green light to get others off their backs when caught with their finger in the cookie jar. They forget to read the rest of the story. We're not taught against judging others. We're taught against unfair and hypocritical judging. In other words, don't be telling someone to straighten their act up when we're doing the exact same things. Some good reads are Luke6:37-42; 1Co5:12; 1Co2:15,16; 1Co6:1-6; James2:1-4; James4:11,12; 1Co7:39,40; Romans2:1-3; Romans12:3; Romans14:10-13; Romans14:1; 1Co10:29; 1Co14:24,25; John7:24; Lev19:15; Prov24:23-25; Prov29:14; 2Chronicles19:5-7; 1Co4:3-5. The Hebrew and Greek words for "judge" used in the Bible are sopet and krino respectively.They have the same meaning: 1) to separate, to put asunder, to pick out, to select, to choose, 2) to approve, to esteem, to prefer, 3) to be of opinion of, to deem, to think, 4) to determine, to resolve, to decree, 5) to judge, to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong. The context wherein the word "judge" is used, and all of it's derivitives, is critical when determining what the exact definition being used is. Peace.
     
  16. Johnv

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    I think it's acceptible to disagree. But we are not to judge. Unfortunately, it seems too often that, when someone doesn't see things our way, we use judging terms like liberal, apostate, lukewarm, heretic, unbeliever, false prophet etc etc etc. Alas, judging is part of sinful nature.
     
  17. Harald

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    As for judging the state of other people before God. It is kind of strange how certain people are quick to scream judge not if someone voices an opinion/judgment that e.g. Mother Theresa was not a saved woman. But not one screams judge not if someone says she was a saved woman. But both opinions expressed are judgments. One of them must be right, and the other must be wrong. Where in the Bible does God say it is forbidden to utter one's opinion as to another's state before God, like saying "she was not a Christian"? And where does He make allowance for uttering a similar opinion of the states of certain persons, like saying "they were fine Christians", as some here on the Board said concerning messieurs Charles Wesley and Isaac Watts? Who gave that person the authority to pass such judgment upon these gentlemen of the past, when only God knew their exact state and standing before Himself? If such passing of judgment is allowed among men, why is not the opposite allowed, that of judging some were not Christians?

    I believe God will rebuke people on the last day for their wrong judgments. Some will be condemned for having judged true Christians to have been lost persons, and others will be condemned for having judged false Christians to have been saved persons.

    When Christ the Lord said "Judge not etc." in the Sermon of the Mount the verb ("judge") was in the present tense. This means He forbade a habitual judging or criticizing of others arising from hypocrisy and ungodly motives. Righteous judgments are to be made, not unrighteous. Righteous judgment when humans and their states before God as Creator and Judge is concerned are made in Biblical light, and not comparing mortals with other mortals. Paul rebuked some he wrote to for their comparing themselves among themselves, they were not wise. Righteous judgments are to be made and that means the own eye has to be single when pointing out some spot in your neighbour's eye, there must not be a big log in the own eye when attending to such a thing.

    Harald
     
  18. massdak

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    warning about liberal doctrine and theology is a duty, the apostle paul warned many of bad doctrine and so should we
     
  19. Me2

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    When Jesus spoke to Men..was he speaking of Carnal rule or Spiritual ?

    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
    ____

    Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


    What Law ? Seriously..Jesus spoke of Law..coming to Fulfill the Law..What Law ?

    Love God...Love All Men...

    It a Spiritual Law..

    Not a Carnal Law...Like the Ten Commandments
    _____________

    Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    What Law ?..The Law of Unconditional Love...

    So where does Judging anyone come into Play..We seem to get wrapped up in the worlds affairs and lose our perspective on why we were born into Gods Family..

    We're to unconditional accept everyone that God has chosen to be a part of his Family.

    Whatever the differences...

    How would you like men to treat You ?

    nothing judgemental, I hope..

    Maybe They could accept you just As you Are ?...
    sorta like Jesus has .....

    Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    If you Love your Enemies..Whos Left For you To Judge ?

    So what Did Jesus Say About Carnal Laws ?...

    Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

    If we have the spirit of Jesus Ruleing inside us.
    who's doing the judging ?

    Me2
     
  20. Johnv

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    warning about liberal doctrine and theology is a duty, the apostle paul warned many of bad doctrine and so should we

    You may not like "liberal" doctrine (I don't either), but just because one does not like it does not automatically equate to it being wrong.

    Yes, I believe that Paul was warning us against extremist doctrine, but that includes conservative extremism as well. The bottom line is how liberal, moderate, or conservative one's doctrine is has no bearing on salvation.
     

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