Judgment Grace and Sin

BobRyan · Apr 21, 2004

Romans 10

8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Seems pretty clear - even to someone like me that believes in free will.

In Christ,

Bob

GH · Apr 25, 2004

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Romans 10

8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Seems pretty clear - even to someone like me that believes in free will.

In Christ,

Bob
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Oh yes Bob, when He it pleases Him to reveal Himself to someone - they cannot do anything but confess it. You KNOW that you KNOW that you've been touched by the MASTER.

Take note of what those who call themselves believers talk about. Is their speech confessing HIM or confessing what they've done or what you have to do. Do you see my point?

Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ and His finished work - this is my confession. He takes care of everything! \o/

Bless you in our great God and Savior's Name,

GH

Jude · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jude:
This is where the Roman Catholic distinction between 'mortal' and 'venial' sins is helpful. There are sins -such as murder- that would put one outside of God's grace. There are others that are not as serious -such as gluttony- but nevertheless hinder the development of God's grace within a Christian.
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But that is the problem, it is the Roman Catholic distinction, not God's. I consider this harmful, not helpful. The Bible is clear that sin is sin and all will be judged. Breaking one law makes you guilty of all of it.
</font>[/QUOTE]1 John 5.16-17 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

Brother Adam · Apr 27, 2004

*begin sarcasm*Naturally Jude, the Bible doesn't really mean what it says in this case.*end sarcasm*

I did want to say on a serious note though this has been an interesting thread to read. Thank you for those who are participating in it.

Jude · Apr 28, 2004

Originally posted by Lorelei:

Originally posted by Jude:
[qb] The Bible does not list one sin that takes us out of God's grace. There is no scripture that says "If you do (fill in the blank) then you will lose the eternal grace that I gave you."
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Heb. 6.4-6 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
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BobRyan · May 2, 2004

Bob said
There are a number of places where Christ reveals the details of the judgment - both the good and the bad "details".

Matt 7:

13 "" Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 ""For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 ""Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 ""You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "" Many will say to Me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 ""And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

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Originally posted by GH:

Hi Bob,

Yes, Jesus said this and many more things. He also said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draw him.
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True enough - and He tells us that He "Draws ALL MANKIND unto Himself" John 12:32.

So it is true that we can not come without that drawing - but the good new is that all are drawn.

GH
If we look at Romans eight, we see that it is God who starts the process and does what is needed to bring salvation to completion.
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True - enough HE initiates the action - but then He places the ball in our court "LIGHT came into the World but the world loved darkness rather than light" John 1

"How I wanted to spare your children BUT YOU would not" Matt 23.

In every case - to the question "What must I do to be saved" the answer given in the NT is never "nothing".

GH

I know if one believes in free-will, it is difficult to understand that it is not our faith that saves us
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Wrong - that is a straw man. In fact that is the Calvinist position. It is not the Arminian camp saying "it is our faith that saves us" it is only the Calvinist saying that when confronted with the call to "respond to the Gospel" present in scripture. It is only Calvinist that argue that IF faith is chosen/exercised/THEN it is our faith that saved us - not God.

But having made that correction - I do agree with you -- they have a hard time with it.

GH said --

Jesus came under the law to the nation of Israel. Much of what He said is to the Jew under the law. Then Paul comes along with his gospel of grace.
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Hmmm "Two Gospels" you say?

Paul had something to say about the idea of teaching "Two Gospels" in Gal 1:6-11.

GH --
; I offer this for those who may be open for it: God judges based on what we KNOW, not what we DO. Believers who KNOW better will be judged more harshly than those who dont
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Use a Bible text to make your point. And "oh yes" you might want to pick one where He is judging harshley but NOT based on what is DONE.

(So yes - skip Romans 2 and Matt 7 and 2Cor 5 and 1Cor 6 and Gal 6 and Luke 12...)

In Christ,

Bob

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