Judgment Seat of Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Pastor_Bob, Dec 24, 2007.

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  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    The following post is taken from another forum. The poster asserts that the popular view of the events regarding the Judgment Seat of Christ is an invention by C.I. Scofield and then propagated by his Bible notes.

    I am interested in comments relative to this event that would pre-date Scofield.

     
  2. canadyjd

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    Pastor Bob

    I don't believe the passage is speaking of the bema seat judgement (though it is found elsewhere).

    In context, the reference to "any man" is a reference to the teachers in the church at Corinth which members were following. The "building" are the followers of those teachers. The foundation is the teachings Paul had given them (Christ and Him crucified with ephasis on the persecution that accompanies following Christ). The "day" is the day of persecution. The "fire" is the persecution.

    Paul is saying that the fire of persecution shall reveal the truth of the doctrine of these teachers. If their followers "abide" or remain faithful, then he has a reward in heaven. If his followers fall away, his doctrine has been proven of no account, he loses his reward, though his salvation remains intact should he, himself not fall away in the fire of persecution.

    My two cents

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. Allan

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    Here is John MacAuthor's take it:
     
    #3 Allan, Dec 25, 2007
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  4. Allan

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    Albert Barnes (1798-1870) in his NT Notes states:
    Charles Hodge (1797-1878)
    JAMIESON-FAUSSETT-BROWN (1871)
    Matthew Henry (1662-1714)
    Not sure what you are looking for exactly but it has been apparently a commonly held belief that this is speaking of the Day of Judgment or Bema Seat for Christians and this is not a seat about condemnation but rewards that shall and should/could have been given.

    The Scofield Reference Bible was not even in print until 1909.
    Oxford University Press published The Scofield Reference Bible. It was released to the public in January, 1909, and revised by Scofield and his team of consultants as the New and Improved Edition in 1917.
     
    #4 Allan, Dec 25, 2007
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  5. skypair

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    My view is that 1) we are sending forward daily the materials for building NJ. Notice the same materials as rewards here. And it ain't built out of "wood, hay, and stubble."

    2) The 3 materials -- gold, silver, precious stones or wood, hay, stubble -- are explained in the next few verses as thoughts of God vs man, wisdom of God vs man, and glory of God vs man. Clearly we will be "stripped of" the "wood, hay, stubble" of men which have no place in heaven. This is not punishment for sin but a "final cleansing" of the spirit, if you will (same thought in Phil 3:21).

    3) As such, it takes place at the Bema after the rapture.

    skypair
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    My take on it is we will all, not some, stand before the judgment seat of Christ. If what the poster said is true, then that leaves windows open for many grievous sins with no need to worry about judgment.

    For instance, if I as a believer decided to go out today and rob a bank or armored car, stole a half million dollars, and did not get caught, I would not have to worry about any penalty or judgment whatsoever. I do not believe this is true. We will stand before Christ and have to give account for our deeds.

    As to our casting crowns at His feet, I do not believe that will be done. John only saw four and twenty elders laying their crowns before the feet of God, no one else.
     
  7. JustChristian

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    Mr


    Referring to this as the Day of the Lord does not call it the Bema Seat of Christ nor does it describe the event as being one intended to hand out rewards to the saved. I believe in THE Day of the Lord, one judgment for all. One description of this final judgment is found in MA 25:

    Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
    Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
    Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
    Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Who are the saved and who are the damned?


    The SAME event is described in REV 20:

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Who is found in the Book of Life and who is not?

    Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    I go with what Jesus Himself taught about the resurrection and believe any wrongs Christians do are dealt with here in this life by the chastisement of the Lord, so that He can present us blameless, body, soul and spirit.

    Jhn 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    Jhn 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    I believe we are judged every day, of our lives, both saints and sinners, and in the resurrection it will be as Paul said, The whole creation groaneth together until now, waiting for the redemption of our bodies, For the creature itself shall be delivered ALSO.

    Rom 8:23And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

    It will be a swift deliverance from the grave to meet the Lord in the air.

    Sown in corruption, raised incorruptible, sown a natural, raised a spiritual, sown in weakness, raised in power, sown in dishonor, raised in Glory. How could you be raised a glorified body and still have to face judgement, don't make sense does it? (This says it all for the Christians, as far as I understand), but woe unto the inhabiters of the earth.


    BBob,
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Dec 26, 2007
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  9. landmarker33

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    I agree with you on the parable of the 10 virgins. I am also curious to hear your thoughts on MT. 13 "Parable of the talents" Does the Lord call any unsaved person a servant or slave to do his business? Also, what talent did he receive and hid?

    Just another quick thought paul to the church at Corinth (Chapter 11:31-32) "But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

    32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

    Also Phil. 3:8-12... What does Paul need to lay hold of v.12?

    8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

    9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

    10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;

    11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

    12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

    There is a difference between the salvation of the soul (life) and spirit.

    Just some thoughts...
     
  10. standingfirminChrist

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    Judas was a servant of Christ but was the son of perdition. He was not saved.

    Difference in Salvation of soul and spirit? Are you another of those ME crowd?
     
  11. Allan

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    Did you get what you needed?
     
  12. landmarker33

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    standingfirminChrist: "Judas was a servant of Christ but was the son of perdition. He was not saved." He was a devil that was chosen. Jn 6:70; JN 13:11) Where is Judas ever called a servant of Christ?

    Yes Judas was not saved and the son of destruction. Correct.

    Difference in Salvation of soul and spirit? Please consider 1Thess. 5:23 "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit AND soul AND body be preserved complete without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Why all three?


    Are you another of those "ME" crowd?

    Don't know what a "ME crowd is?
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    ME crowd preaches the salvation of soul and spirit are two different things.

    ME? Millenial Exclusion. They believe some saved will be cast into outer darkness/hell.
     
  14. landmarker33

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    I believe the soul and spirit are two different things. How could they be the same? 1Thess. 5:23; Heb. 4:12; Lk 1:46. The words are even different.

    Soul: Psuche- In common with animals, the life element
    Spirit: Pneuma- Denotes wind, breath, blow, immaterial invisable part of man. (Lk 8:55; 24:37,39; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 5:3-5; Jms 2:26, etc.,

    Through the spirit is how we communicate with God. Our life (soul) is where the fruits are seen both of the spirit and in the flesh.

    Notice Mt. 25... The Lord gave them all talents so they could do His business, they are all called slaves (those equiped to do the Master's work) since when does the Lord give an unsaved person work to do for Him? This is not about who is born of the spirit or not, but rather who has been faithful or not. Outter darkness is not hell, it is a position that one by choice (for ones unfaithfulness) will be further from the light.

    Notice Paul's letter to Timothy (2Tim. 2:11-13) "It is a "trustworthy" statement: For "IF" we (we His N.T. church-saved baptized believers) died with Him, ( died with Him-Gal 2:19-20) we shall live with Him; (V.12) "If" we endure, we shall also reign with Him; "If" we deny Him, He also will deny us; (ruling and reigning- a position of honor. Rev.19:6)
    (V.13) "If" we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He CANNOT deny Himself.

    Gal. 6:7 " Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a mans sows, this he will also reap."

    He is writing to a church of saved baptized believers. Why should they take heed of this warning is irrelevant ?

    Lord bless
     
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    As I stated earlier, Judas was used by the Lord, but he was not saved.

    So you believe some Christians will be cast into outer darkness?
     
    #15 standingfirminChrist, Jan 1, 2008
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  16. landmarker33

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    I believe what Jesus said in Mt.25:23-24; 29-30.. notice the word faithful
    Unfaithful servants, stewards, slaves, in the Lord's church will be in outer darkness. Does our service in the Lord's church mean anything? Eph. 3:21

    Where does it say the unfaithful will inherit? In fact it says the meek will inherit the earth. Mt.5:5. Justice must go both ways as seen in the parable of the talents. Not all judgements are negative.

    Heb. 10:25-31. Who is this applied to?
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

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    So you are a member of the ME (Mercy Eliminated) crowd that got banned for the heretical teaching of Christians being cast into outer darkness.

    You weren't planning on staying long, were you?

    Saved will not find themselfves in hell or outer darkness.
     
  18. landmarker33

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    So no verses to back up your conviction... I never said the saved will go to hell.. I said outer darkness. Those who have been born of the spirit (Rms 10:9-13) will never go to hell.

    Why is it heretical teaching when I gave you pleny of verses?

    Show me please where hell and outer darkness are the same place? Also, will the lost and the saved be judged at the same time as in Mt. 25? If what you are saying is correct show me when the lost/unsaved and the saved are judged at the same time as in the parable of the talents?

    Don't get mad, prove your convictions with God's word...
     
    #18 landmarker33, Jan 1, 2008
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  19. landmarker33

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    Did not mean to stump you, I just wanted to get some good biblical dialogue going…:godisgood:

    If there is not "Mercy Eliminated" for the unfaithful saved... then there must not be any "Mercy Eliminated" with the unsaved too...

    Heb. 9:27 "It is appointed unto man (all men) once to die, after this the judgement"
     
  20. standingfirminChrist

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    The saved will be judged according to their works at the JSoC, not their sins. Their sins were paid for at the cross.

    At the JSoC, they will suffer loss for certain things done as Christians... but not be cast into outer darkness.

    They will lose rewards. Crowns. Not their place in the Kingdom.

    The unrighteous will find their place in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Those who have placed their faith in Christ are made clean by His blood. They will be presented spotless and blameless before the Father... not cast away.
     
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