Just curious, How many here Hold To Historical pre Mil?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    As my pastor holds to that for his eschatology, but 'allows" majority of us to remain pre trib pre mil!
     
  2. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Is this what you mena by Historic Pre-Mil?

    Foundational Features of Classic Dispensationalism:

    1. O. T. Prophecies will be literally fulfilled
    2. The Bible makes a distinction between Israel and the Church. (1 Corinthians 10:32)
    3. The Bible should be interpreted literally.
    4. The Bible ws given through progressive revelation: God Gradually revealed more truth over time. (Jn. 1:17;Acts 17:30;Heb. 1:1-2)
    5. There is a distinction between law and grace
    6. There will be a pre-tribulational rapture of believers. (1 Thes. 4:13-18;5:9-10;Rev. 3:10)
    7. The Millennial Kingdom will be Jewish in nature.
    8. God's purpose in His dealing with man is His glory, not man's salvation. (Eph. 1:1-12)
    9. There are several charectoristics of each dispensation:
    6 characteristics of each dispensation
    a. A revelation from God
    b. Responsibility upon man
    c. A test of obedience
    d. The failure of man
    e. Judgment from God
    f. Grace extended from God
    With God extending Grace in every stewardship period then salvation according to classsic dispensationalism was by Grace through faith. The distinction was the Jews were given the Lae as God's standard and they failed to live up to that standard and had to believe in a Messiah (saviour) to come for salvation. By Grace their faith was counted unto them for righteousness.
     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    I call myself a Historical Pre-Mil for basically one reason: I hold that there is one return of Christ, at the end of the Tribulation. I'm post-Trib.
     
  4. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    That is why I asked for a clarification, pre-mil's can be just that but pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib but still be pre-mil. So what does he mena historic pre-mil?
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,926
    Likes Received:
    95
    What is it & why do you call it historic?
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,926
    Likes Received:
    95
    Oh stop....this is a headache!
     
  7. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    The dinstinction should be made between Historic Premil and Dispensational Premil, not pretrip/postrib, for there are various views of the trib within the dispy schools.

    And the distinction should be made sharply, because dispy's are given to claiming historic premils such as Spurgeon and Gill as one of their own, when in fact hstoric premil is based on a covenantal hermeneutic, completely opposite of the dispensational hermeneutic. Admittedly, the historic and dispy versions of premil do share some overlapping doctrines, such as the literal one thousand year reign of Christ. But the similarities are really superficial.
     
  8. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    It is called "historical" because it interprets the events of Revelation and other certain prophecies as being fulfilled througout Church history. This is not the same as dispensationalism because dispy interprets the book of Revelation as a prophecy concerning Israel, not the Church.

    Historical premil sees a future restoration of Israel in which Israel is swept into the Church on a grand scale, whereas dispy sees a future restoration of Israel in which the Church is swept into Israel on a grand scale. Dispy has Israel accepting Christ when He returns and then Christ turns them back to Moses by resuming temple worship. Dispy has two peoples of God, and retains the first century pharisee's notion that salvation is by blood kinship to Abraham after all in spite of Jesus clear teachings to the contrary.

    If you haven't detected it by now, I'm not a fan of dispy'ism. I should have just said that and left it there.
    :tonofbricks:
     
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,555
    Likes Received:
    273
    I have two booklets of the Historicist view that I cherish, 'A Brief Commentary On Daniel', and, 'A Brief Commentary On Revelation', written by Brother Edward H. Overby, A.B., B.D., D.D., then Professor at the Lexington Baptist College (a sound conservative school which is now defunct, and sadly missed by many). Although I don't agree with Brother Overby's premillenial view on Revelation 20, there is much from the rest of his writings that were an outright epiphany to me when I first read them.

    When it comes to the book of Revelation I see some merit in all the views, Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.
     
    #9 kyredneck, Jul 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,926
    Likes Received:
    95
    Please tell me, cause I fail to grasp the importance of it all. Why is it or is just you fellas like to speculate?
     
  11. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    I see you have no concept of pre-trib-premil view by dispies. Israel is not swept into the church and the church and Israel are seperate in God's dealing with them. Both however are saved in the very same fashion By Grace through faith and in every stewardship period, as you call dispensation God has always dealt with mankind through Grace. In the Millenial Kingdom the Jews Messiah Jesus is reigning on the Throne of David in Jerusalem or Zion and all the nations of the world come to Him to worship there. The Millenial Kingdom is a Jewish age but also Gentiles will be in it, which means during the Tribulation and Great Tribulation both Jew and Gentile are saved by Grace Through Faith and those who survive will live physically in the Millenial Kingdom and those martyred will also reign with Christ along with the Bride.
     
  12. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    Please read my post again a little slower and then let me know if you still think I misrepresented dispy views.
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    You post correctly once again JD.....it is almost like you study to show yourself approved...
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,555
    Likes Received:
    273
    And what a grand glorious day that would be....talk about a revival of the Church...WOW!... GLORY!.....HALLELUJAH!....... :)

    YUCK!....New wine into old wineskin. Type swallows anti type. The goods things once again become a shadow. A return to the ministration of death and condemnation. Incredible.....and absolutely false.

    ....and that they do unabashedly, in stark contradiction to scripture.

    Glad you told me, I would've never guessed.
     
    #14 kyredneck, Jul 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2011
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,555
    Likes Received:
    273
    Steve, I guess the bottom line here is that eschatology is simply not for everyone. I personally have been fascinated with it most of my life (more so in the past).
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,926
    Likes Received:
    95
    Please understand Larry, Im not trying to criticize. Ive seen the "Left Behind" phenomenon & I just dont get the buzz. Id much prefer to listen to good Pink sermons & read the mans teachings. Now Im hooked & thank you for that recommendation:thumbs:

    Stay cool brother.....going to be another hot one.
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,555
    Likes Received:
    273
    I'd long already left sensationalism by the time the 'Left Behind' series came around, I missed those. Even a lot of non believers around me read them; I think now that many think that as long as they think and speak well of Israel, all will be well with God and them.
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,926
    Likes Received:
    95
    I noted that Hummer sales went up during the Left Behind craze.:laugh:
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Basically he would hold to the revelation being Future, but tends to see more of a "blurring" between things already accomplished and thing still to come, as he holds that part has been fulfilled during life of Apostle, some still to come in Future...

    Still see Literally Second Coming, Great tribulation, Rapture as a Post trib 1000 years Millinium on earth etc!
     

Share This Page

Loading...