Just "HOW" Much Dynamic Equivalence Are the NIV/ESV/HCSB?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by JesusFan, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Are they considered tio be "DE?"

    Thought that they were NOT DE translations, but some here see that they are?
     
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    To clarify.
    I cannot speak with any authority on the HCSB because I don't own one, though the bits I have read do not impress me.

    With regard to the other two, they are obviously more literal than the GNB or the CEV or the ghastly Message, but they are not Formal Equivalence in the way that the KJV, NKJV or NASB are.

    My church actually uses the NIV because my Minister considers it to be easier for new Christians to understand. I therefore use the NIV and preach from it when my minister's away. Very often it's fine, but occasionally I come to something where I really don't think it's accurate enough, and I have to stop and explain the true meaning.

    I hope my minister never falls under a bus, but if he did, I would use the NIV at his funeral as a mark of respect, but the next Lord's Day I would be preaching from the NKJV.

    Steve
     
  3. Phillip

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    Your response is interesting, but what is the criteria you use to determine if a scripture is accurate? Do you have an extensive background in Greek? and if so it seems obvious you may be TR oriented?

    Just curious for some more background concerning your answer please.
     
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    The main criterion that I use is that the translation should represent the original as accurately as possible while retaining good English. I'm sure Rippon will tell us presently that a word-for-word translation is not really possible, and that is so, but I would say that a translation should be made humbly, seeking to render God's words as truly and directly as possible. If the translators are going to add extra words, I think they should tell me.

    I have a knowledge of NT Greek, though I'm sure it is not by any means as great as some others here. I expect the English Bible to reflect as closely as possible that which I find in the Greek. I do not know Hebrew, so I am at the mercy of the translators in the OT. I expect them to deal fairly with me.

    Yes, I prefer the TR to the CT, or at least, I prefer the Byzantine Text to the Alexandrian. I do not believe it is safe to dismiss 95% of the extant manuscripts in favour of a tiny number of, admittedly older, documents.

    I am not KJVO or even KJVP. My translation du choix is the NKJV.

    Steve
     
  5. Rippon

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    It is just not possible,practical or profitable Steve.

    Take a chapter from the New Testament and see how far you will get with a translation such as the NASB. A lot more italicization and bracketing would be needed to follow your dictate. And again,it would be a visual nightmare.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    It is only impossible if you are silly about it. The NASB, NKJV and KJV do a fine job and I don't find it at all a visual nightmare; I find it very helpful.

    Steve
     
  7. Rippon

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    Again,if your desire was really carried out in a consistent manner --it would hurt your 60 year old eyes. The NASB,NKJV and KJV have not consistently carried out your fondest wishes. I know you harbor the belief that they do. But a little research on how short they come in delivering on your cherished hope would dash your ideal to the ground. It is an impossible dream Steve. Get an interlinear and compare. Or better yet,skip a real translation altogether and stick with an interlinear. I dare anyone to concoct a translation along your criteria -- it would rake in some good money for optometrists though. It would be something akin to reading an original printing of the 1611 KJV!
     
  8. JesusFan

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    It would be really tough to use exclusively an interlinear and a trans like Youngs literal, as at times even the NASV 1977 made it choppy and really hard to understand flow of the Bible in certain passages!

    that is why I feel best to use the greek text of your persuasion, either TR/CT/MT, and also use one literal ver like Nasv/Nkjv, and balance that with Niv 2011 or NLT, in order to get the "flow" of the text being study!
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    My dear friend,
    You are being very silly. Believe it or not I do possess an interlinear Bible.
    If I believed that nothing should be done unless it can be done perfectly in every way I should never again preach a sermon, drive a car or make love to my wife! The KJV, NKJV and NASB do a valuable job in showing what is added and what isn't, and I recommend that everybody on this board makes use of the valuable facility.

    I think I posted this before somewhere but here are four translations of Luke 1:50:-

    1. My ultra-literal translation: 'And the mercy of Him into generations and generations to the fearing Him.' Note that there is no verb in the oriinal. Greek often leaves out the verb to be.

    2. NKJV: And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.' The NKJV puts the verse into decent English and puts 'is' in italics to show that it is not in the orginal and so 'was' or 'will be' might be possible translations. In English we do not say 'into.....and' so the NKJV rightly adapt the phrase to 'from....to.'

    3. NIV: 'His mercy extends to those who fear him from generation to generation.' This is OK I suppose, but the 'and' at the beginning is omitted, losing the connection to the preceding verse that the Holy Spirit thought should be put in, and the word 'extends' is added although it does not exist in the Greek. Did God make a mistake by not writing 'extends' in the original, so that the NIV needs to correct it?

    4. CEV: 'He is always kind to everyone who worships him.' This is an example of a paraphrase. It is just ghastly. Kindness is not the same as mercy and 'fear' is by no means the same as 'worship.' The idea of God's mercy extending down the generations is obliterated. Yuk!

    Steve
     
  10. Rippon

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    Well,I do agree that the NASB is superior in relation to the other two versions in that regard.

    If the KJV and NKJV were really good at showing what wasn't in the original text -- those translations would have to use a whole lot more italics and bracketing. They could start with the longer ending of Mark,the move on to at least some of the following:

    Matt 12:47;17:21;18:11
    Mark 9:44,46;11:26;15:28
    Luke 17:36
    Acts 17:36
    Acts 8:37;15:3424:7;28:29

    Don't have a false sense of security that the existing italics do a thorough-enough job.


    You really need to wake-up to the fact that the NKJV does the same kind of thing as the NIV in thousands of places because English demands it. It is not as pristine-pure as you would like to imagine. Please tell me how the phrase extends to those ...overturns the meaning of the text in any way? "Did God make a mistake" ..." --- pahleez!
     
  11. JesusFan

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    isn't the "best' English version though the one to you that accrately reflects what the original text wrote down, but is also aable to be understood as I read it?

    To my mind, no "best" version, as I can read and use for my studies the NASV, but you or someone else might find that 'too wooden", and would profit more from the Niv/HCSB?

    What is important is to use one that closely follows the manuscripts, and that I can understand and apply?

    maybe its because I DO see modern versions like NASV/ESV/NIV/HCSB etc akll being the Word of God to us for today, accrately reflecting what God originally wrote and inspired to us to have!
     
    #11 JesusFan, Nov 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2011

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