Just what must I do to be saved?

Now how do you know what Job knew.You put words in the prophets mouth.You can't save yourself nor can i.You want be born again of yourself so whats the point with arguing.The spirit is like the wind it blows on whom ever God intends for it to.

You are jumping to conclusions friend. It is good that Job had this impression of God, but under Grace, because of the Christ's atonement for Sins, God has granted to man life through faith, man's faith in God. You'll notice that Job is describing what he has done, how he has lived his life and yet he is guilty in that he sees God as carrying out a sentence upon him.

Job did not know that the yet to come Messiah was going to atone for his sins, and that by having faith in God as he did He has life eternal. If he did know it his statement would certainly have been different.

How is it that one who is born in "total depravity" can be "in the will of God from before the foundation of the world"?

If that's your answer, I agree. Calvinism clearly states that man is born totally depraved, and you say that man must be in the will of God from before the foundation of the world in order to go to heaven. Real screwed up doctrine you have!

Have you ever seen me post that man can save himself by any means whatever?

I have never doubted, let alone posted anything contrary to God's Omniscience.

Well I guess then you can scratch out of your bible, "for by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves it is the Gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast". That Scripture declares that Man does have a part in his salvation! Do you suppose Paul was just foolin' around?

Man has to have faith in God for God to save him. NO, God does not give man the faith, because God has no faith to give to man.

You must have been havin' a "joy rush" when you wrote this last thought, cause it don't make sense! </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Did i read what i think i did .God has no faith to give man.How absurd.When a man is born of the spirit thats when he is born of faith Duh..You sit around like a mocking bird and wait for some Armanian to drop something in your mouth.

You are jumping to conclusions friend. It is good that Job had this impression of God, but under Grace, because of the Christ's atonement for Sins, God has granted to man life through faith, man's faith in God. You'll notice that Job is describing what he has done, how he has lived his life and yet he is guilty in that he sees God as carrying out a sentence upon him.

Job did not know that the yet to come Messiah was going to atone for his sins, and that by having faith in God as he did He has life eternal. If he did know it his statement would certainly have been different.

How is it that one who is born in "total depravity" can be "in the will of God from before the foundation of the world"?

If that's your answer, I agree. Calvinism clearly states that man is born totally depraved, and you say that man must be in the will of God from before the foundation of the world in order to go to heaven. Real screwed up doctrine you have!

Have you ever seen me post that man can save himself by any means whatever?

I have never doubted, let alone posted anything contrary to God's Omniscience.

Well I guess then you can scratch out of your bible, "for by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves it is the Gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast". That Scripture declares that Man does have a part in his salvation! Do you suppose Paul was just foolin' around?

Man has to have faith in God for God to save him. NO, God does not give man the faith, because God has no faith to give to man.

You must have been havin' a "joy rush" when you wrote this last thought, cause it don't make sense! </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]

 

Believe this Yelsew ,you could memorize the whole intire bible and it wouldn't do you one bit of Good.Some people know the Bible like the back of their hand ,but in a carnal way.The lord hid things from the wise and prudent and reveals them unto babes.So then you could go to all the Theology schools you want in this world and it never do you one bit of Good.Some even incompass land and sea to be made proselyt and we know what he is when he is made.A two more fold child of the devil.Their are children of grace all around this world,but they don't hear them.They don't care to hear who old baals prophets.John 10:8

You are jumping to conclusions friend. It is good that Job had this impression of God, but under Grace, because of the Christ's atonement for Sins, God has granted to man life through faith, man's faith in God. You'll notice that Job is describing what he has done, how he has lived his life and yet he is guilty in that he sees God as carrying out a sentence upon him.

Job did not know that the yet to come Messiah was going to atone for his sins, and that by having faith in God as he did He has life eternal. If he did know it his statement would certainly have been different.

How is it that one who is born in "total depravity" can be "in the will of God from before the foundation of the world"?

If that's your answer, I agree. Calvinism clearly states that man is born totally depraved, and you say that man must be in the will of God from before the foundation of the world in order to go to heaven. Real screwed up doctrine you have!

Have you ever seen me post that man can save himself by any means whatever?

I have never doubted, let alone posted anything contrary to God's Omniscience.

Well I guess then you can scratch out of your bible, "for by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves it is the Gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast". That Scripture declares that Man does have a part in his salvation! Do you suppose Paul was just foolin' around?

Man has to have faith in God for God to save him. NO, God does not give man the faith, because God has no faith to give to man.

You must have been havin' a "joy rush" when you wrote this last thought, cause it don't make sense! </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]

 

We seem to be forgetting a few choices within Christianity.

we have arminianism.
we have calvinism.
we have universalism.

every creature before the foundation of the world is in Gods plan. If you were born on Earth. your in his plan. you were in his image called "in christ". In Gods absolute time before the foundation of the world. we are complete and worshipping our Lord.
When Gods plans began to unfold on earth. Adam fell and all man "in Christ" in his own time is emptied from this image into death. and ffrom death we work our way back into the image called "in christ"

Remember what you were complete in the beginning. that is your complete image you are becoming. each man woman and child is deconstructed from the beginning only to discover the details of what transpired in finite time to become complete what we were in absolute time "in Christ"

all men are in Gods will. Jesus was the head of the firstborn. his bride is his body. (also the firstborn.) they in turn are sacrificing themselves for the lives of all the rest of Gods creation. the chosen vessels of Wrath. concluding that all men are returned back into the image called "in christ" and completed. they have begun a journey only to find that they were complete from the beginning of Gods will. before the foundation of the world.

not like calvinism..were only some are saved. not like arminianism..were only some are saved. But universalism.. were all are saved. all return back to discover they were safe and complete from the beginning of Gods plans.

Me2

 

This don't take a rocket scientest to understand here duh.Paul was a wicked man,a carnal minded man before he was born of the spirit.His scales came off his eyes.His flesh serpent scale eyes came off.Paul became born of the spirit.James 2:26 Body with out the spirit is dead.So how can a man with out the spirit of God excercise any faith yelsew.Being Born of The spirit is not of our selves.Faith is hope.Christ in you the hope of of Glory.Mystery among the gentile.Now if you get above this Hope you are already turned aside toward Satan.Or didn't really have any to begin with.Yelsew do you hope in The lord or do you know you are saved which is it?One or the other will let out a boastfull noise.One will be humble as a sinner should be.And we are all sinners i don't care what church you are a member of.Know this when the Lord kicks Satan out of your heart and soul,Satan can't ever go back in there,but he will take up an abode in your flesh.Am i over your head on these matters.

If you believe that God the father is Omniscient, and that HE is All seeing, and that there is no other God, then you are compelled to agree that there is nothing for which God has hope, and there is nothing that God cannot see or know. And Since there is no other God whom would God the Father have faith in? If God has not need of faith, for what possible reason would he have any of it to give to man?

God demands only one thing of man and that is, that man have faith in HIM.

If you can prove that wrong please be my guest! </font>[/QUOTE]

 

You cleaned your own house uh,well come clean mine.I wished i had that power.You can't lose eternal life,if you already posses it.How can a man be half saved.I believe when the you get your second birth you got it.Your going home.Yeah,you will sin,but thats the flesh it won't never be or do no good.It can't it's corruption.Now some will be delivered over to satan,but the soul would go free in the End.If you are sealed then you are sealed forever.Nothing could separate you from the love of God,that is if your saved.But the Lord knoweth them that are his thats why Paul said nevertheless the foundations of God standeth sure.Paul wasn't worried he Knew Gods purpose was to save his child for all eternity.And Jesus has alredy done that.Now as for if you are saved for this life That takes the Holy Spirit to reprove you,convict you ,chastize you so you might live a life of joy and peace now.Their is nothing we can do to earn eternal life.It is the gift of God,but to enter into life now in this life, Yes their are many works and labours of love.We do nothing to get to the Eternal heaven thats has already been done.Thats why never boast,because you don't deserve it and truly theirs nothing you could give in exchange for your soul,not nothing.Jesus paid that sin debt at calvery for his children and it is finished for evermore.We only have sin to offer the Lord.It will take him right on down and the three fold cord to perserve our soul for all eternity. The Father,The Son and The Holy Sprit.

 

Hello herc,
Welcome to the BaptistBoard and to the C/A Forum.

May God Bless you.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Hello all. Faith does come from God-

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God."

Galatians 2:20 - "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me ,and gave Himself for me."

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
(All emphasis is mine, and all Scripture is from KJV)

[ February 14, 2004, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: cdg ]

 

Yelsew,

You stated:

"However, I can reveal to you the promises and the facts upon which my faith rests that God made and gave to me, that caused me to have faith in Him. Then it is up to you to believe or not believe as you see fit. But I retain every tittle of my FAITH, because it is MY FAITH, and not your faith."

You must be a truly holy man. Think of all the masses who hear the gospel but do not generate their own faith, they don't decide, they don't yield...but you saw fit; they didn't. In your view, heaven must indeed be the place of eternal boasting...a place where the saints can pat themsleves on the backs and take joy in the fact that they saw fit to believe.

We must always remember in thankfulness that the only reason why we come to Christ and overcome anything is solely by the grace of God. Dr. Benjamin B. Warfield, in his Plan of Salvation, once noted:

As over against all teaching that would tempt man to trust in himself for any, even the smallest part, of his salvation, Christianity casts him utterly on God. It is God and God alone who saves, and that in every element of the saving process. “If there be but one stitch,” says Spurgeon aptly, “in the celestial garment of our righteousness which we ourselves are to put in, we are lost.” (51)

 

Amen, a sound and resounding first post.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Yelsew,

I believe I know your line of thought.

1. According to your logic, faith is an inherent attribute of man.

God commands people to have faith.

Therefore, individuals are saved by putting their faith in God. This action is independent of God. The salvation is conditional.

This is a very common view. Here is an article by R.C. Sproul that I highly recommend you read:

http://www.modernreformation.org/mr01/mayjun/mr0103pelagian.html

Here's a few excerpts:

Modern Evangelicalism almost uniformly and universally teaches that in order for a person to be born again, he must first exercise faith. You have to choose to be born again. Isn't that what you hear? In a George Barna poll, more than seventy percent of "professing evangelical Christians" in America expressed the belief that man is basically good. And more than eighty percent articulated the view that God helps those who help themselves. These positions -- or let me say it negatively -- neither off these positions is semi-Pelagian. They're both Pelagian.

It is no wonder then that later Reformed theology condemned Arminianism as being, in principle, both a return to Rome because, in effect, it turned faith into a meritorious work, and a betrayal of the Reformation because it denied the sovereignty of God in saving sinners, which was the deepest religious and theological principle of the reformers' thought. Arminianism was indeed, in Reformed eyes, a renunciation of New Testament Christianity in favor of New Testament Judaism. For to rely on oneself for faith is no different in principle than to rely on oneself for works, and the one is as un-Christian and anti-Christian as the other.

 

Yelsew,

I believe people have saving faith because God gives it to them. God created the earth and everything in it by speaking a word. He can appoint a worm to attack Jonah's bush. He can raise the dead and give life to a valley full of dry bones. He can make himself incarnate and take upon the sins of the mass of the elect upon himself and declare them righteous. He can certainly give them faith.

In the words of A.W. Pink and C.H. Spurgeon:

"As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed" (Acts 13:48). Every artifice of human ingenuity has been employed to blunt the sharp edge of this Scripture and to explain away the obvious meaning of these words, but it has been employed in vain, though nothing will ever be able to reconcile this and similar passages to the mind of the natural man. "As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed." Here we learn four things: First, that believing is the consequence and not the cause of God's decree. Second, that a limited number only are "ordained to eternal life," for if all men without exception were thus ordained by God, then the words "as many as" are a meaningless qualification. Third, that this "ordination" of God is not to mere external privileges but to "eternal life," not to service but to salvation itself. Fourth, that all-"as many as," not one less-who are thus ordained by God to eternal life will most certainly believe.

The comments of the beloved Spurgeon on the above passage are well worthy of our notice. Said he, "Attempts have been made to prove that these words do not teach predestination, but these attempts so clearly do violence to language that I shall not waste time in answering them. I read: 'As many as were ordained to eternal life believed,' and I shall not twist the text but shall glorify the grace of God by ascribing to that grace the faith of every man. Is it not God who gives the disposition to believe? If men are disposed to have eternal life, does not He-in every case-dispose them? Is it wrong for God to give grace? If it be right for Him to give it, is it wrong for Him to purpose to give it? Would you have Him give it by accident? If it is right for Him to purpose to give grace today, it was right for Him to purpose it before today-and, since He changes not-from eternity."

http://www.reformed.org/books/pink/pink_sov_04.html

 

Yelsew,

Ephesians 2:8- Faith is the gift of God,
By the way, every ability we have comes from God. We have nothing of ourselves. An Arminian might say "I have a will", but who gave you that will? God. People are made differently but we all are made. And what limits and abilities we have come from God. Your ability to have faith comes from God. Romans 12:3 says in the last part of the verse "...God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. God has dealt(given) to every man some faith. So every man's faith must come from God.
Galatians 2:20 "...Faith of the Son of God..", the "of" there means that the Son of God does have faith. Its his faith.
Romans 10:17- Faith comes from hearing ,and hearing from the Word of God. Where does the Word of God come from? God.
Luke 17:4 "The apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith." How could He increase their faith if He possessed none? He does have faith to give to saints and sinners.
Galatians 2:16 (parts of the verse) "...by the faith of Jesus Christ... by the faith of Christ.." Of Christ, it means from Christ.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 "And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith."
Kind of hurts your "First off, ALL men have faith" argument doesn't it. That does not mean all men do not have a measure of faith just that they do not have saving faith.
Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the suthor and finisher of our faith..." He starts it and finishes it. Its by Him and from Him.
Revelatians 2:13 "... and hast not denied my faith..." Whose faith Christ's faith. So He must have faith. He said it Himself.
I can in a way give you faith, not the same way God does though. When one sees the pictures of Mars, one believes there is a Mars. Why because someone showed us a picture of it, they gave us faith. God gives faith through His Word. Sir, you are going against clear Scripture. I can say there is no moon but there it is outside. You can say God has no faith and He gives no faith, but there it is in Scripture.
And if it is faith "in God" why does it not say that. It says faith of(from) God. Have a nice day.

 

By the way I would not call myself a Calvinist, I do not follow Calvin. I follow the Bible(as best I can).