Justified by Faith

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. Van

    Van
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    Almost all Christians would claim to believe we were justified by faith, and perhaps quote Romans 3:28, which says we are justified by faith and not by the works of the Law.
    If pressed, many Christians would define “works of the law” as the actions we take to conform to the requirements of the Law, rather than what the “law” actually accomplishes, which is to make us aware of our sin and lead us to Christ.

    So lets back up and ask the question, justified by whose faith? Does our faith justify us? If we took a poll, would not a large group, perhaps even a majority, say our faith justifies us? But that would be a works based salvation would it not. Ah but you say faith is not a work.

    Maybe we should back up again and consider “justified by whom?” Were we justified by what we did or by what Christ did on the cross? The free gift of justification to life was provided by Christ on the cross, Romans 5:18. So it was Christ’s faithfulness, even unto death on the cross, which provided the propitiation for the whole world. So then the question becomes, how did we “receive” that gift or have that gift applied to us individually?

    So it would seem, then that our faith in Christ provides access to Christ’s free gift of justification by the grace of God. But does that too miss the mark? I think so. Would not our faith in effect “save us” then and make us the actual architect of our salvation?

    So if our placing our faith in Christ does not automatically save us, then God must credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us “in Christ” which saves us because in Christ we receive the justification to life provided by Christ. Wow now that is a systematic theology that fits with all scripture.
     
  2. JesusFan

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    What save ANYONE is what Jesus did at the Cross, by His death as a penal Substitionary death on benefit of ALL those whom God woul;d have saved by that Act...

    His death is the basis of our salvation, faith allows us to access that and get saved!

    it is the free gift of God towards those whom He has saved in Christ, not of ANY works....
     
  3. MB

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    Compare it to this passage.
    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
    Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
    Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    MB
     
  4. Van

    Van
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  5. Van

    Van
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    Hi Jesusfan, your Calvinist view is false doctrine.

    1) What Jesus did on the cross was provide salvation to mankind, for He became the propitiation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    2) We receive that reconciliation when God places us spiritually in Christ.

    3) We are saved by grace through faith. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God's saving grace.
     
  6. JesusFan

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    You do realise that the 4 point calvinist, or Arnraldist like myself would be in agreement with you here, its just that those who are saved is by grace of God, That God elects us unto life in Jesus!
     
  7. MB

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    Those who are saved are saved by grace through faith are saved Grace cannot come with out comming through faith. No faith, No Grace. A men
    MB
     
  8. quantumfaith

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    Yes and the "equation" No faith = No grace is also commutative. No grace = No faith.

    :) Helps me sometimes to "mathematize" things.
     
  9. percho

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    Delmar: Okay... I'm with you fellas.
     
  10. Van

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    The problem with the "mathematized" theology is it subsituted unequals for equals.

    1) No revealing grace from God = no faith in that revelation, i.e Christ Jesus.

    2) No faith in Christ Jesus = No grace of God crediting that faith as righteousness.

    3) No faith in the truth (according to God's assessement) = no choice of you for salvation.

    Therefore God chose you as first fruits for salvation through the work of the Spirit and faith in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    The problem with "no faith = "no grace" is the grace in view here is saving grace, God putting a person spiritually in Christ. But a person can hear and understand the gospel, i.e. revealing grace which is through the work of the Spirit, yet not come to faith such that God credits it as righteousness.
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    Some believe being justified by faith is a process, as long as we are faithful, we remain justified, sort of a works sustained salvation. This is a mistaken view in my opinion.

    On the other hand, I believe we are justified forever when God puts us spiritually in Christ, because in Christ when we sin, it is just as if we did not sin. Secondly because if we are actually spiritually in Christ, our faith in Christ is protected by God, I believe we will strive to become Christ-like until we are called home. Now some of us will be sidetracked, building of the foundation of Christ with straw, and not earn eternal rewards, but we will all enter heaven, some abundantly, others as if escaping from a fire.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I totally agree.....at last we see eye to eye:thumbs:

    I love the Doctrine of Justification .... this is where you rejoice in this news that you have been declared justified. Life is suddenly brand new and what was once so gloomy is now bright. Hope springs up within you and you burst out in a song of gratitude and thanksgiving. This is the best news you have ever heard……it is the news that you are forever free. You have been declared innocent. You have been declared just, and now, you really believe it.

    Romans 5:18-19, “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    The question is: when does God put the sinner in Christ ? or better still (I believe) when DID God put the sinner in Christ ?

    oftentimes the eternal salvation/redemption wrought by God through Christ for His people are spoken of in future tenses, when it should be past tenses.

    like "when God put(S) us spiritually in Christ".
    The fact is that everyone whom God purposed to redeem and justify are recipients of these statuses (if you will allow me to call them that) passively.
    God put His people in Christ thereby allowing Paul to say correctly, "I am crucified with Christ......" and in Romans, to say that the child of God is "risen with Christ" in baptism, and in Ephesians "seated in the heavenlies in Christ...."
     
  14. Van

    Van
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    When did or when does God put people spiritually in Christ" During their individual lifetime, after they put their faith in Christ, and after God credits that faith (if He does) as righteousness. Salvation does not depend on a person being willing to be saved, or working to be saved, but upon God who has mercy upon whom He has mercy.

    So here are the theories, as I understand them:

    1) God elected individuals before creation for salvation and He places them in Christ during their lives after altering their total spiritual inability with irresistible grace. This is false doctrine on three counts:

    a) Scripture says God choses us after we have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10
    b) Scripture says men of flesh have some spiritual ability, enough to understand the milk of the gospel, but not the spiritual things discerned with the aid of an indwelt Holy Spirit because men of flesh are not indwelt. So it is impossible for them to discern those spiritual things, but they can understand and respond affirmatively to the milk. 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3 and Matthew 13:20-22.
    c) Scripture says Irresistible grace is false doctrine because in Matthew 23:13 men who were entering heaven and therefore had been altered by "irresistible grace" were turned aside by false teachers and false doctrine. Therefore the grace needed to enter heaven is not irresistible.

    2) God puts us in Christ when we physically die, having by our own effort, "endured to the end." This is false doctrine, enduring to the end proves but does not provide salvation. All verses cited to supposedly support loss of salvation actually only support loss of rewards, but not loss of entry into heaven.

    3) The Biblical doctrine is God elected corporately the target group of His redemption plan when He chose Christ before the foundation of the world. However, God elects us individually during our lifetime, after we have lived without mercy, based on crediting our faith in Christ as righteousness, and by means of the Holy Spirit putting us spiritually in Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
     
  15. RAdam

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    The problem with the idea that God puts you in Christ during your lifetime after you place faith in Christ is this:

    Ephesians 1:3-6
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    If faith a spiritual blessing? Surely your answer must be yes. I mean, if it isn't a spiritual blessing, what is it? So faith is a spiritual blessing. From whom did you receive this blessing? Paul says you got it from the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Where did you receive it? Paul says you were given it in Christ. So, before you had faith, you were in Christ. Well, when were you placed in Christ. Paul says before the world began, and God's blessing you with faith, and various other spiritual blessings, is according to this great fact.
     
  16. convicted1

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    So, if I have this right, according to what you posted here, His elect are in Christ before they were born? If they were in Christ from birth, then they were never really lost to begin with, at any point in time? So, then Jesus, in essence, didn't have to die for them? Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost. So, if they were never outside of Christ, then Jesus dying for His elect was a "moot point"....or that's how this post came across to me. Please elaborate further for me to fully comprehend what you were saying, please.
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    :eek:
    :eek::confused::eek:
     
  18. percho

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    I agree with you in this concept. That passage you posted and I put in bold is the very reason I believe that the faith spoken of in Hebrews 11 is what God was doing not anything the people spoken of did or believed. We will use Abraham, he was chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world therefore by faith God called him and he caused the purpose of God to go forth.
    The children of Israel, By faith (that is for the purpose of God) they passed through the Red sea as by dry [land]: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. If it was their faith why didn't more that two of the adults enter the promise land? Their faith must have been like a yo yo. It is by the faith of Christ we are saved not by our faith in Christ. God did these things for the faith that was to come.

    for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost

    They are lost because in Adam all die. one-HAVING-destroyED the Greek for lost I think. Only through the death and resurrection of the Christ can they be given life again
     
  19. JesusFan

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    The Cross itself is the basis of salvation for any of us, faith is JUST means we access that Grace that God applied to all believers in jesus...

    God applies the effectual grace from the death of jesus on Cross moment we believe, buts its the Cross not faith that saves and secures any of us!
     
  20. MB

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