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Featured Justified while Ungodly !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Glorification exists already in God's mind too but actual glorification of your body does not reveal it but FULFILLS it and the same is true for justification - actual justification is by faith and thus FULFILLS what was in God's mind.
     
    #61 The Biblicist, Apr 23, 2012
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Glorification does exist already[for those Christ died for] in God's Mind, so the Saints are also Glorified already in His Mind. Actual Justification is by Faith before the consciousness of the one Justified already before God ! It is not made actual to God however at the time of the persons Faith. Faith in fact reveals experientially to the elect one, what has always been an actual Fact to God from Everlasting.

    Also deal with post 57 !
     
    #62 savedbymercy, Apr 23, 2012
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Faith is not the causative reason for one's Justification before God unless we are strictly speaking of Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, but rather it is the sense, or perception, and evidence of ones Justification [ Heb 11:1] for it is Christ's Righteousness as imputed that only Justifies before God, and this is revealed from Faith to Faith to heaven born Faith ! Faith is a spiritual grace or fruit [Gal 5:22] and enabling produced by the Holy Spirit of God that gives the redeemed sinner eyes to see in Christ a imputed Righteousness, now having by Him also convicted of our own sinfulness by nature, we do turn from our own Righteousness, and succumb to the Righteousness we have had revealed to us by the Gospel, provided by Christ Rom 1:16-17, hence the Spirit of God bears witness with our spirit that we are indeed Justified and do have peace with God through Jesus Christ, and do become evidentially as well as declaratively Justified by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 6:11. Now Faith reveals to the Elect sinner, their state in Christ, and their free gift of Righteousness through Him Rom 5:17-18

    17For if by one man's offense death reigned by one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

    18Therefore as by the offense of one, judgment to condemnation came upon all men, even so by the righteousness of One, the free gift unto justification of life came upon all men.
     
    #63 savedbymercy, Apr 24, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You don't understand the simple difference between PURPOSE and FULFILLMENT as you make PURPOSE equal to actuality. If your line of logic were correct then merey prophesy would be fulfillment rather than the actual occurrence of what was prophesied.

    What is in the MIND of God is not in time and space but in the mind of God. It has not SUBSTANTIAL reality because if it did then God would never make the following statement:

    Isa. 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


    11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

    Hence what he has "purposed" is not considered by God as done but rather something "I WILL...DO".

    However, that is not your approach or application of what is found in the etenral purpose of God. You speak of it already fulfilled, done, real, and everything future as mere realization that it had already been done and already real and already fulfilled, already actual.

    God purposed our justification, calling, sanctification, glorfication but until it is FULFILLED in time and space it has NO REALITY - it is NOT DONE - or else God would not speak of His OWN PURPOSE in these words - "I WILL do it"
     
    #64 The Biblicist, Apr 24, 2012
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    bib

    Deal with post 57
     
    #65 savedbymercy, Apr 24, 2012
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Why should I? You wont deal with my post so why should I deal with your post? Is this a one way street???
     
    #66 The Biblicist, Apr 24, 2012
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Actually you can't without putting a twist job on the Truthfulness of it, because it surely teaches that one is Justified before God by Christ's merits way before they begin to Live by Faith, though they are ensured they shall live by Faith !
     
    #67 savedbymercy, Apr 24, 2012
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God knowing ALl things that will come to pass does NOT mean that they already happened in real time and space!

    God knows indeed all who will get saved, but ONLY those who place faith in christ will be saved by God!
     
    #68 Yeshua1, Apr 24, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Everyone Christ died for, were reconciled to God, by His Death, even while they are enemies, and all whom He reconciled, shall be saved by His Life. Rom 5:10


    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    This verse teaches the Salvation of everyone Christ died for. True, everyone shall not be saved, because Christ did not die for everyone, pretty simple !
     
    #69 savedbymercy, May 6, 2012
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    .

    There is a distinction between "redemption" and "salvation" as the term "salvation" covers far more territory then mere redemption. The term "redemption" merely refers to the covenant work of the Son but "salvation" embraces the covenant work of all Three Person's of the Godhead. To restrict "salvation" to merely on Person of the Godhead is extreme ignorance of Biblical salvation.

    A. "What I HAVE PURPOSED"

    God PURPOSED redemption of the elect before the world began but they were not actually redeemed before the world began.


    B. "I WILL DO it"

    Christ PROVIDED redemption of the elect on the cross

    The Holy Spirit APPLIED redempton to the elect at regeneration/justification when they were ACTUALLY saved through faith.
     
    #70 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Everyone Christ died for, were reconciled to God, by His Death, even while they are enemies, and all whom He reconciled, shall be saved by His Life. Rom 5:10


    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    This verse teaches the Salvation of everyone Christ died for. True, everyone shall not be saved, because Christ did not die for everyone, pretty simple !
     
    #71 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Christ provided redemption for all the elect but redemption requires more than mere purpose by God, provision by Son but Application by the Spirit of God to the elect.

    The eternal purpose of the Father is INCOMPLETE apart from the redemptive work of the Son and the redemptive work of the Son is INCOMPLETE without the application work of the Spirit.

    You are trying to preach an INCOMPLETE salvation and thus "another gospel."
     
    #72 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Everyone Christ died for, were reconciled to God, by His Death, even while they are enemies, and all whom He reconciled, shall be saved by His Life. Rom 5:10


    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    This verse teaches the Salvation of everyone Christ died for. True, everyone shall not be saved, because Christ did not die for everyone, pretty simple !
     
    #73 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Folks, by the Terms of the Everlasting Covenant, made from Everlasting, The Elect, whom Christ their Surety represented, could not be charged with condemnation they should incur in Adam, Christ contracted already in Covenant engagements to take full responsibility for any violation of God's Law they may incur, leaving them Justified as though they never sinned in Adam or in themselves !
     
    #74 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Now you are attempting to teach an INCOMPLETE reconciliation.

    We were reconciled to God by eternal purpose before the world began.

    We were reconciled to God by redemptive provision on the cross

    We are reconciled to God by Holy Spirit application through justification by faith in the gospel (Rom. 5:1).

    Again, Eternal purpose without redemptive provision is an INCOMPLETE reconciliation.

    Again, Redemptive provision without Holy Spirit application is INCOMPLETE reconciliation.


    The simply truth is "What I have purposed; I WILL DO it" - the first part is INCOMPLETE without the second part.

    You teach a fragmented salvation and demand that each aspect stands sufficient in and of itself when it does not!

    Your error is not denying that each aspect is complete in regard to that Person of the Godhead, but that each aspect is complete WITHOUT necessity of the other works by the other Two Persons of the Godhead. Therefore, as you say, the redemption of Christ is complete in regard to ITSELF as Christ FINISHED His aspect of the everlasting covenant but your error is assuming that His completion stands alone and is sufficient in and of itself WITHOUT the covenant works by the other two Persons of the Godhead.

    So your arguments have an APPEARANCE of correctness because the Son's work was finished and complete in regard to HIS WORK but your error is to present it as sufficient in and of itself in regard to the whole covenant WITHOUT the works of the Father and Son. I don't expect you to understand what I have said because if you understood what I said you would not continue teaching your fictitious doctrines.
     
    #75 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Blasphemy !

    Folks, by the Terms of the Everlasting Covenant, made from Everlasting, The Elect, whom Christ their Surety represented, could not be charged with condemnation they should incur in Adam, Christ contracted already in Covenant engagements to take full responsibility for any violation of God's Law they may incur, leaving them Justified as though they never sinned in Adam or in themselves !

    God never charged the Elect world with one Trespass, 2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
     
    #76 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



    Isa 53:6

    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him[Christ] the iniquity of us all.

    The Lord hath laid or cause to meet on Him Christ, the iniquity of us [ The Sheep] all. Now any to whom this may be True of, be it known that, though they may have not known it, and presently may not know it, they have a full acquittal of all their iniquities Ps 32:2, so blessed are they whom for Christ's Sake, God will not impute iniquity to their charge. There can never be in this world, and the one to come any charge of sin upon them ! Thats why Paul writes " Who shall lay any charge of any sin against God's Elect ? God certainly doesn't ! Rom 8:33

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    Folks God has never Laid a Charge of sin to His Elect ! Because He lad them all on Christ !
     
    #77 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Hogwash! If that were the case the angel could never have said "for he shall save his people FROM THEIR SINS" and they could never be called "SINNERS" and they could never be under the CONDEMNATION of the Law which is "death"!

    Hogwash! If that were true they could never be described "EVEN AS OTHERS" in regard to their NATURE in relationship to sin - "children of disobedience."

    Hogwash! If that were true they could never bear the fruit of the NATURE of Satan - lying and murder - (David, John 8:44) prior to regeneration.

    Hogwash! They came into this world "CONDEMNED ALREADY" (Jn. 3:17) - he is referring to those who would "not perish" in Jn 3:16 and those who would come to the light becuase they LOVED DARKNESSS formerly and therefore in unbelief UNDER THE WRATH OF GOD (Jn. 3:36).
     
    #78 The Biblicist, May 7, 2012
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    You Just do not believe the sacred record, but God never lais one charge of sin against the Elect. Rom 8:33

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    As you can see, non imputation is their Justification before God !

    The engagements of the Everlasting Covenant would forbid God to charge the sheep with their crimes, the blame must go to the Shepherd !
     
    #79 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    That verse does not say that the elect came into the world condemned already, you are reading that into the verse, that is called eisegesis !
     
    #80 savedbymercy, May 7, 2012
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