Keep commandments?The tree of life?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by GAPS119X20, Dec 15, 2001.

  1. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20
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    TREE OF LIFE

    In the beginning of the book

    GEN.3 [22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he
    put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    The middle of the book

    PROVERBS 13 [12] Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.[13] Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.[14] The law of the
    wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

    The end of the book

    REV.22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Somewhere along the way

    MATT.15 [8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is
    far from me.[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    Why do people want to get rid of GODS 10 commandments?All through the bible including new testament we are told we are to keep them.So why do most christian religions try and do there best to say that as believers in Christ we dont need to follow them
     
  2. Gloria1

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    Because the bible tells me so in Gal.5:1-4. "It was for liberty that Christ freed us [from the law]. So stand firm, and do not take upon yourself the yoke of slavery [to the law] a second time! Pay close attention to me, Paul, when I tell you that you have yourself circumsized [by the law], Christ will be of no use to you! I point out once more to all who recieve circumcision that they are bound to the law in its entirety. Any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from Gods favor!

    Be reminded here that the laws were given to Moses for the conviction of sin from which follows that conviction is needed as shown in Gal.2:17 "But, if in seeking to be justified we are shown to be sinners."

    This means that after justification the laws are redundant because "in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor the lack of it count for anything: only faith, which expresses itself through love" (Gal.5:6).

    Hence, 1Jn.3:9, "he who is in Christ cannot sin" with later Rev.14:6-12 denouncing "what sustains those holy ones who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."

    Could you please tell me which translation you have because I find you Gen. qoute either incomplete or wrong.

    Gloria
     
  3. Pauline

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    Catholics believe the Ten Commandments are still in effect for Christians. In fact, many of us use them when preparing for the Sacrament of Penance.

    We do not keep the ceremonial part of the Sabbath day which was for the Israelites throughout their generations. But we do keep the Lord's Day, the first day of the week, on which Jesus Christ was resurrected. Not a day of rest in the same way that the Jews keep a day. We are called to rest from servile labor on that day as much as is possible. But our primary emphasis is on the day as a day of worship and spiritual emphasis. We go to Mass, should do more spiritual reading, more prayer, etc. A good day to spend with family and friends and to visit those in nursing homes, hospital, homebound, etc.

    Nothing legalistic in our observance, but the most special day of the week.
    Pauline
     
  4. Gloria1

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    [
    Perhaps, but Sunday is extra special as the seventh day of the week which is the day on which evening did not follow the day. Easter is always celebrated on a Sunday and is celebrated for two days because 'moonday' cannot follow the day on which evening did not follow the day.

    It is perhaps interesting to note here that in some European countries Sunday is the seventh day of the week.

    Maybe it is just the printers that are wrong either here or there. [​IMG]

    Gloria

    [ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: Gloria1 ]
     
  5. GAPS119X20

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    Hi Gloria
    You wrote
    posted December 15, 2001 12:12 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because the bible tells me so in Gal.5:1-4. "It was for liberty that Christ freed us [from the law]. So stand firm, and do not take upon yourself the yoke of slavery [to the law] a second time! Pay close attention to me, Paul, when I tell you that you have yourself circumsized [by the law],


    The book of Galatians is book containing 6 short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is
    mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so. Circumcision is one of the laws contained in ordinances.Those laws were nailed to the cross according to scripture.

    COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    EPH.2 [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    They will also try and tell you that the law of ordinances are not separate from
    the commandments or the law so i have sent scripture below to prove that this to is not true.

    2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.
     
  6. ChristianCynic

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    Gap, how many commandments have you broken?
     
  7. GAPS119X20

    GAPS119X20
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    By the letter,most of them
    By the spirit,probably all
     
  8. Helen

    Helen
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    Hi GAPS,

    And Welcome to the BB!

    The Ten Commandments are very much in effect -- for everyone who is under the law!

    Does that mean that Christians are not to obey the Ten Commandments? No way! It means we are not JUDGED by them in terms of our eternal destiny, as we are covered by Christ.

    There are a few points to add to this, though.

    1. Christ said that ALL the law, and ALL the prophets hang on the two commands to love God with everything we have and to love our neighbor as ourselves. This explanation of the foundation of the Law gives us the right focus. Thus we are not to concentrate on obeying the letter of the law (not that is not to be obeyed -- that is not where our concentration should be), but on Christ and our fellow man. You see, when we concentrate on obeying the Law, we end up concentrating on ourselves. Christ's words redirected our focus to where it should have been all along. There is a good explanation of the problems of obeying the law for the sake of the law in Isaiah 1.

    2. When a person is born again of the Holy Spirit, he or she no longer has a heart that inclines, or tends toward, evil always (Genesis 8:21). Instead we have a new heart, one that inclines toward God and wants to obey Him. It may take us some time, but He is faithful to mature each of us until we are in the image of Jesus Christ Himself (Romans 8:28-30).

    3. When a Christian goofs up, he or she is disciplined (Hebrews 12), in line with the promise of God to complete what He started in each of our lives (Philippians 1:6 and the Romans 8 reference again.)


    The truth is that without the Holy Spirit indwelling a person, it is impossible to keep the commandments! It is only through Jesus they can be kept at all.

    Paul says some interesting things in Romans 7:7 and 10-11 (and please read all that is in between and the rest of the Bible, too!)

    What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed, I would not have known what sin was except through the law....I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.


    The law shows us what sin is. The natural man, as soon as he finds out what is forbidden, wants it! And since actions spring from the heart, the guy is a dead man spiritually in thought as well as in deed! So no matter how much we try to obey the law on our own, we simply cannot do it! We can try and try, and many have. Their concentration becomes focused on their every word and action, to the exclusion of so much else.

    Now take a look at what Jesus said, at the very beginning of the Sermon on the Mount:

    Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

    And if He fulfilled them, then, if we are in Him (which we are when we are born again -- John 14:20), then not only is the Law fulfilled through Him, but we ourselves are finally able to obey more and more of the Law as we finally have a heart for it!

    And please note in Revelation 22:2, that the Tree of Life will be for healing.
     
  9. ventin

    ventin
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pauline:
    Catholics believe the Ten Commandments are still in effect for Christians. In fact, many of us use them when preparing for the Sacrament of Penance.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Can u list the ten commandments as taught by the Catholic church? this is not an insult to ur intellect ok. But i watch a video recently regarding this. so i would like to clarify.

    btw, Helen that is an excellent post.
     
  10. Kathryn S.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Can u list the ten commandments as taught by the Catholic church? this is not an insult to ur intellect ok. But i watch a video recently regarding this. so i would like to clarify. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    We have the same commandments...different numbering since the bible doesn't number them. Here is a comparison.
    http://www.falwell.com/press%20statements/prsarchives/prstencom.htm

    God Bless

    [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Disciple 2001 ]
     
  11. DHK

    DHK
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Disciple 2001:

    Here is a comparison.
    http://www.falwell.com/press%20statements/prsarchives/prstencom.htm
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Since when did the Catholic Church revise their Catechism, Disciple? Perhaps you could do some research for us. I have an old catechism with the first commandment where the phrase "you shall not make for yourself any graven image," is omitted. Can't find it anywhere mentioned. In fact in most Catholic copies of the Ten Commandments that particular command is ommitted--perhaps deliberately?? Why would it suddenly show up here? Perhaps for ecumenical purposes? Got any good explanations?
    DHK

    [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  12. Chemnitz

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    Disciple, that was a nifty site but as so often happens falwel got it partially wrong. Lutheran's divided the ten commandments similarly to the rcc. They are a little too broad in their catagories.
     
  13. Kathryn S.

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    If you don't like the side by side comparison, here is from the old children's Baltimore Catechism which children would memorize verbatim from:

    313. Q. Which are the Commandments of God?
    A. The Commandments of God are these ten.

    1. I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt not have strange gods before Me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them.
    2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
    3. Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
    4. Honor thy father and thy mother.
    5. Thou shalt not kill.
    6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    7. Thou shalt not steal.
    8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
    9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
    10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

    Here is the adult Catechism of the Catholic Church with the teaching of the Ten Commandments spelled out and a couple of other sites.

    All the commandments are here, taught and explained. By the way, the Catholic Church teaches the Ten Commmandments are for all Christians.
    &lt;A HREF="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/part3_2.html" TARGET=_blank&gt;http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/part3_2.html[/URL]&lt;/A&gt;
    http://www.ewtn.com/library/SOURCES/TA-CAT-2.TXT
    http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/NUMBERNG.htm

    How do you know that the numbering system you are using is correct or better than numbering the Catholics use? Can you back it up with Scripture? As far abreviated versions, this is done to make it easy for children to memorize. I understand that the Protestants do this also.

    Fallwells site was actually very good because he is showing that there would be no problem with either list of the Ten Commandments displayed in public because the Commandments are all there. There is no difference between the two.

    God Bless

    [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Disciple 2001 ]
     
  14. GAPS119X20

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    hi Helen
    You wrote
    1. Christ said that ALL the law, and ALL the prophets hang on the two commands to love God with everything we have and to love our neighbor as ourselves. This explanation of the foundation of the Law gives us the right focus.

    The WORD of GOD tells us how to love one another.What most religions have done is use these scriptures to do away with the sabbath and make their graven images.But how does scripture say we are to love one another?
    ARE GODS PEOPLE KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS
    or is "all ya need is love"

    GALATIANS 5 [13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the
    flesh, but by love serve one another.[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy
    neighbour as thyself.
    JOHN 13 [33] Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews,
    Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.[34] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another;
    as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.[35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have
    love one to another.

    The 2 above scriptures are used by those who practice iniquity(lawlessness).They interpret these to mean, if you love one
    another you need not keep the 10 commandments. But what does the bible say?

    All the scriptures below tell us how we are to love one another. And there all quite clear!
    Keep the 10 commandments = love

    JOHN 15 [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[9] As the Father
    hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which
    we had from the beginning, that we love one another.[6] And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.
    This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

    JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do
    well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not
    commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a
    transgressor of the law.

    ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
    [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 because there will be some out there that will tell you the
    "commandments" mentioned are not the 10 commandments. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. There will also be some out there that will tell you since the" keeping of the sabbath" is not mentioned or" thou shalt have no other gods before me"is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored. YIKES!

    If you are not- committing adultry,killing,stealing,bearing false witness,coveting,or breaking
    any other commandment,You are keeping the law! If you are not keeping the law,you are not loving one another(according to the bible) !!
     
  15. Pauline

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    DHK,
    Could you post the commandments in the list you have? And, could you tell us more about the catechism it is in? What age is it written for? Who published it?

    How many Catholic catechisms have you examined to know how they worded their Ten Commandments?
    Pauline

    [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Pauline ]
     
  16. DHK

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAPS119X20:

    Keep the 10 commandments = love
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Do you keep the Ten Commandments? All of the Time? "Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
    (James 2:10).

    Gal.3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."
    ---If you are bound to keeping the law, are you cursed?

    DHK
     
  17. DHK

    DHK
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pauline:
    DHK,
    Could you post the commandments in the list you have? And, could you tell us more about the catechism it is in? What age is it written for? Who published it?
    How many Catholic catechisms have you examined to know how they worded their Ten Commandments?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have some of my own Catholic material which I can refer to and give you the publisher and date of publication, etc. if you wish. The testimony of so many Protestants, and others who say the same thing should be sufficient to convince any objective thinker. Do you think we were all just dreaming or hallucinating when we testify to being taught or having seen and bearing witness to these things. Consider carefully what you say.
    Here are a couple of other links that testify of the same thing: http://www.sxws.com/davidg/ninecomd.htm http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/tencomma.htm

    DHK
     
  18. ventin

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    right, it says the same thing as i watch the video... and this is the testimony of a former catholic priest! :rolleyes:

    i think i can start many more threads in regard to catholic doctrines. But i would need the Catholics here to vet the truths in the video. After that we can go and see what the scriptures says. how is that? :cool:

    [ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: ventin ]
     
  19. Pauline

    Pauline
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    ventin,
    Please give us the name of the Catholic priest that you are refering to. Was he an order priest, if so which order? Was he a diocesean priest, if so which diocese did he serve in? Please give us some details about him so we can check out his credentials for speaking about the Catholic beliefs and practices. Also, the title and date of the video and who published it would be helpful.
    What do you personally know about the credentials of those who made the video and those featured in it? Maybe you can give us an address from the video?

    DHK,
    Those links you posted are not worthy of you. God created you for better than that.

    Yes, please give me the exact quote of the Ten Commandments from the Catholic book you have, the title, author, date of publication of the book, name and location of publisher and what age person it is written for.

    Thank you,
    Pauline

    [ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Pauline ]
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
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    Pauline,
    The material I remember having was published by the Knights of Columbus, just like this material on this website comes from them.

    THE TEN COMMANMENTS

    I. I AM THE LORD THY GOD: THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME.

    II. THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN.

    III. REMEMBER THOU KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH DAY

    IV. HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER

    V. THOU SHALT NOT KILL

    VI. THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY

    VII. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL

    VIII. THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBORS

    IX. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE

    X. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS


    The Knights of Columbus have graciously provided an online mini-course, which does what this guidebook would otherwise have to do:
    http://www.banner.faithweb.com/xtheten.htm
    DHK
     

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