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EW&F,

I'm a bit confused about some things in your post. Please help me to understand:

1) How does a person become "evolved" that are "ill equipped with good teachers"? For the nearly 50 yrs. I've been in God's family, I've altered or changed my views about some things in the Bible, but to the best of my knowledge, I've never actually been "evolved" in any of the churches in which I've been a member. Please explain how you have been "evolved" in whatever churches you've served.

At first glance, it seems that either these churches or maybe you yourself, or both hold to some tenets of "evolution."

Hopefully you or the churches in which you serve(d) don't hold to some anti-creationist heresies, but if so it seems to me that the two of us are farther apart on issues that are more important than whether or not Children's Churches are scriptural.

2) "Churches that are ill equipped with "good teachers." If a teacher is a "good" one, why then is he/she classified as being "ill equipped"?

To me, either he/she is a "good teacher" or he/she is "Ill equipped."

As I see it, if a teacher is "good," he/she isn't "ill equipped"--and if he/she is "ill equipped," he/she isn't a "good" teacher.

Seems to me that you're reasoning from two self-contradicting standards.

To illustrate, if I had a car that's about to fall apart because I failed to properly maintain it for a long period of time, I'd be misrepresenting its condition were I to run an in the classified section and claimed it was in "good condition," wouldn't I?

Please explain why you consider an "ill equipped" teacher to be "a good teacher," or vice versa. Brother, you've really got me baffled on this! I'll be waiting to read how you can unscramble this seeming paradox to me.
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Here's some other things to consider:

What if both the child's parents are unsaved?

There's been plenty of times in my years in the bus ministry where a child has ridden on my bus whose parents weren't saved. How does that child receive any explanation about what's been taught/preached if his parents don't have the HS dwelling in them? Add to that, neither of his/her parents were even present during the teaching/preaching time(s)!

Then there's the possibility that one or both the child's parents were raised under a "ministry" that teaches/preaches a "false gospel."

Is the child in a good position to get Bible-based explanations at home if he lives in a situation like that? Say, for example, he hears that a person can grow in the Lord if he/she gets good support/encouragement from resources that help him/her understand that help him/her learn from the Bible that you don't need to rely on what some man in clerical garb who preaches from a RCC publication tells you.

The child then goes home to his life-long RCC-believing father and asks him if the above is true. What kind of explanation do you think his/her father will give that child? That's happened several times to some children who rode on my bus--whose parents allowed them to attend the church that sponsored my bus so the parents wouldn't have to bother with their kids for 3-4 hours on Sunday morning.

I'm not making up these examples, Bro. EW&F, they actually have happened to some of the children who rode my bus over the nearly 20 years I served in the bus ministry.

I could supply you with other examples of children who come from homes where little or no parental help in explaining what was taught/preached on Sunday morning(s), but I think you can catch my drift.

I don't know how things operate in your church's situation. Maybe all your church families with small children have good, Godly parents. Thank God if that's the case in your church! :thumbs:

OTOH, even the best Bible-preaching/teaching churches in which I've served (& all of them were/are!) over the years still have some challenges when it comes to having families that have small children.

I'd love to read your advice in dealing with small children who live in the circumstance(s) I mentioned above. I'll even give them to my church's Youth & Family elder. He's always asking for good ways to help improve our church's ministry to our families....especially those with young children.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations, Bro. EW&F.

May God bless you, your family, and your church! May your services this coming Sunday be blessed by His Spirit's obvious presence, and may whoever teaches/preaches His Word do so with great power and wisdom. May revival start amongst your congregation, and may it spread all throughout the area in which you're located--and even beyond that area!

Your Brother in Christ,
WPE3BQL

PS--What I posted to Bro. EW&F also applies to all those on BB who've just read this post!! :godisgood: :wavey:

 

Aw thank you. I enjoy reading your post as well. You are a very patent man, more patent then I am much if the time you do have well thought out post and I do appreciate even though I have more of a drive by posting style. It comes from my more matter of a fact communication style especially in written form.

The issue of husband and wives was something my husband and I talked a lot about before getting married because we knew there were a couple of areas where we differed. But we both had decided that they were not deal breakers. My husband still talks about how excited he was when he found out I am reformed since that was a deal breaker for him and he wanted to find out as soon as he could. But where we have come down to is that discussion is fine between us as we are both adults with brains but that he would always have the final say in church we attend and that his views is what would be taught to our children. I think as a women this is just me respecting his role and responsibilities and understanding my role in relation to his. I can't expect a man to be the spiritual leader if I'm going to fight him or buck him at every turn.

Aw silly songs with Larry was such a staple of my childhood
Although here is something to think about because I agree there is a bunch of Biblical ignorant Christian out there. It's one of my pet peeves, especially when I was in Bible college and people at church were treating me with contempt for going to Bible college. But I think that Children's church that is dumbed down is part of the problem. We now have an entire generation that grew up being entertained by church instead of learning the big doctrines. Let's face it Children's church easily morphes into youth church which morphs into college ministey. And we have all seen the stats on the retention rate of kids past college.

Kinda lends itself to my point that Children's church is not helping the Biblical ignorancy problem we have in churches.

Sad but true

At the risk of sounding like I'm arguing from a pragmatic point of view, I think churches put a lot of emphasis into Children's ministry because its a low hanging fruit. Especially in poor areas free babysitting for 3 hours on Sunday is not going to be turned down very often. But imagine if we did the harder work of going after the Fathers instead of the Children? Yes it's going to be a lot more work and a completely new frame of mind but I think k the rewards would worth it. If you go after children you may occasionally get the mother, but you go after the father you'll get the whole family. Just some food for thought there.

 

Where to begin....you have been all over the boards here. An ill prepared teacher is one that's not well prepared by the church but has been selected for the job because of willingness....or he gives money....or his ego is such that heknows more than others etc.

After experiencing this a few times it was my son who refused to go......he even perseived the inadequacies. My whole point is that it is the job of the entire church to raise up the child....but it is the responsibility of the parents to make sure this happens. Therefore I put little value on 'Children's Church ' to provide spiritual instruction.

 

BINGO......YOU JUST NAILED IT SISTER:thumbs::laugh:

 

EW&F,

Please explain how a person "perseives" a teacher's "inadequacies." I've never heard of how a person "perseives" anything. Is this an ability a person gets from your church after sitting under its preaching/teaching for a few years?

Also, I've noticed that you've chosen not to address the issues I sincerely presented to you of a child not having saved parents, or having parents who grew up under heretical backgrounds and thus aren't able to give their child real Bible-centered explanations of what the child heard at the church his parents allow him to attend.

Is it that you're merely evading my questions that I sincerely asked you, or is there some other set of reasons you have for not addressing my sincerely-asked questions?

Why don't you respond with some solid Bible-based advice for dealing with these all-too-present circumstances that occur in even some of the best Bible teaching/preaching churches these days?

Surely you do have some Scriptually-based advice to offer for these circumstances that are all-too-present in even the best Bible teaching/preaching churches today, don't you?

Seems to me that I'm not the only person who's "all over the boards" on some very important matters that need to be addressed if the churches in which we serve can be prepared to help our parents of young children "train up a child in the way he should go."

With all sincerity, I again ask you to advise me on how a church can best be prepared to help a young child whose parents either aren't saved or, because of their heresy-filled upbringing, are incapable of giving their young child Bible-based explanations of what he heard either in SS or during the pastor's sermon through which the young child had to sit.

 

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yea, what kind of question is that....you trying to start a fight?

1st, then why are the children there

yea well I find much of your questioning too time consuming ....not when im trying to do things 1st thing in the morning.

No time.

Yup

go to the parents & speak directly with them.....that's your real task. are you up to it? BTW, what good is it to school a kid who has no parental guidance & reinforcement?

 

Yeah I'm with you on Sunday School being segregated by age but then having everyone together for the preaching of God's word.

 

Why are they there in the first place....who is bringing them?

 

Why does it matter? They are there without parents.

But to answer your question - - they come with their friends who are church members, or parents who think their kids need some church education but they themselves don't want to go, or they come via the bus ministry (aging myself here ...)

 

OK....then who is reinforcing their education?

 

And I do not.

 

Visit my (WPE3BQL's) for some examples of "who is bringing them?"

There are probably other posts that can provide additional answers as to "who is bringing them?" I'll let these other posts that deal with your question speak for themselves.

 

TheScouts or maybe VBS.....oh i got it, BoysTown...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

You do that!