Keepers ....

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by wpe3bql, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql
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    .... At Home

    Titus 2:2-5 is addressed to aged women (doesn't specific exactly when a [assumedly married] female becomes "aged" [and I'm certainly not gonna got there!].

    Nonetheless, verse 5's third "command(?)" is that they be "keepers at home."

    I know of a Baptist pastor who preached hard on this for many years.

    Then, one day he was "led of the [immutable?] Lord" to have his church open up a daycare center on the church's grounds. This, of course, would be staffed almost 100% by women.

    You'll never guess what he never preached about from that day forward.

    Was this pastor wrong in changing his tune about this?
     
  2. annsni

    annsni
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    Yes, he was wrong because he would then be ignoring Scripture. Now, not everyone gets to that passage but if he purposely avoided it, he would be in error.

    I am a keeper at home - and I work outside of the house part time. Being a keeper at home doesn't mean that a woman is to always be home, never work and basically be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Her heart is to be home and she is to be caring for the needs of her house. In some cases it might need to be that she works outside the house to support the family.
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Well, "keeper" doesn't mean domestic servant or confinement to the house.

    It comes from the Greek "ourus" which mean guardian, watcher, to be "ware". Think on that. The role of wife and mother cannot be relegated to the low degree of maid service and the silent submissive that so many Christians either openly or inwardly make it to be.

    I have literally heard this preached to mean that a woman's job is to keep her house so clean that her husband and children will want to come home at the end of the day. I'm not making that up.

    Couple the meaning of "keeper" - guardian, watcher, and to be "ware" - couple that with the Proverbs 31 wife and mother and chew on that a while.
     
    #3 Scarlett O., Jun 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  4. JonC

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    I don't think the pastor was wrong in changing his tune about that passage (it needed to be corrected). Titus 2 is not saying focusing on "at home," but instead is explaining duties and responsibilities (I believe explaining roles, i.e., a submissiveness just as Christ submitted to the will of the Father). So the pastor needed to change his tune.

    But perhaps he did so out of the wrong reason. BTW, I would never recommend a church start a daycare or weekday school (not one as a business anyway....as a ministry, perhaps, but I've not seen any that were not businesses).
     
  5. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql
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    Bro. JonC --

    I do not what to be critical and/or judgmental to a dear brother (or sister) for whom Christ died.

    I know of about a half dozen Christian "weekday school(s)" that I personally would not primarily consider to be "businesses."

    FWIW, I personally taught in one of them for some 25+ years.

    Of course, there IS some exchange of $$$ (tuition / fee, etc.). However, I personally would not primarily consider such exchanges to be primarily "business(s)" any more than a "Love Offering" that an individual and/or a church might take up for, e.g., a visiting missionary, etc.

    The Christian day school which is primarily an educational ministry to our community and sponsored by the church with which I've been a "covenant member" for some 20 years ( www.lighthouseministries.org ) is NOT first and foremost a "business."

    Lighthouse Christian School (LCS) has over the years helped via scholarships, etc., needy families (some of which aren't members of LCF) to allow their children to attend). LCS has welcomed "foreign exchange students" to enroll and/or even graduate from LCS.

    Each year LCS has different middle and HS student groups who volunteer and must fund for themselves "mission trips" not only in various parts of the USA, but also in some foreign countries. Many souls from "who knows where" have entered into God's Family as a result of such trips.

    LCS's kindergarten has been recently blessed by the addition of a Memorial Scholarship Fund when its beloved principal for many years was promoted to be face-to-face with Jesus a couple months ago when her cancer treatments here on earth were not "successful."

    A good portion of LCS's faculty has at least Master's Degrees from various state universities, and all of them are REQUIRED by the Tennessee Association of Christian Schools to maintain a more rigorous continuing education program than the government controlled schools require.

    Probably every one of LCS's faculty and staff could earn at least twice (if not more) the salary/benefits were they in the Government-controlled schools. Yet, year after year, most continue to teach at LCS.

    I could go on and on extolling the virtues of LCS. FWIW, I have no children at all so I have no "vested interest(s)" in LCS at all.

    My dear brother and friend, maybe if you would take the opportunity to expand your horizons a bit, you might just have "a change of heart" concerning some of the Christian day schools / day care centers that exist.

    Please, brother, take this in the spirit in which I give it you.

    --- WPE3BQL (B.A., M.A.)
     
  6. JonC

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    Brother, I welcome criticism of my views and my posts. Otherwise I wouldn't post here. Thank you for taking the time to engage what I have written.

    I admit that I may be overly critical of these "ministries." I also need to acknowledge that those who work with these children are ministering. I do not mean to take anything away from the workers, or from the fruits of their labors. My wife has worked at a church preschool for years.

    I have, however, seen these things become more than was originally intended. Pre-schools and day cares are (IMHO) para-chruch organizations that can get out of hand if one is not very careful. I disagree that the "tuition" is more of a "love offering," in my experience anyway (most of the time it is a fixed amount required for services). I question budgeting so that these things show no profit ("rent" typically zero's out the balance within a churches budget)...I do not know for certain that this is unethical. I do urge caution, but apologize in that I have most likely overstated my position.
     
  7. wpe3bql

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    FWIW, I certainly accept your apology.

    Here's one little tidbit about LCS's' pre-school and then I'll probably not say any more about it.

    Some of you may recall that in May, 2010, much of the Middle TN area had a "500 and/or a 1,000 yr flood."

    The news media flashed pictures of this flood. One of those pictures was of a "portable" that had been used by LCS's' pre-school which had been swept off its moorings and floated along I-24E (around Exit 59) and broke up in the flood waters that had inundated that stretch of I-24.

    I'm not sure of all the details about what happened, but a couple weeks after this disaster ("The Hand of God"[?]), people from the TV program "Extreme Makeover/Home Edition" got in contact with the leadership of LCS/LCF and asked if the TV program could "help out in some way."

    "Help out" was an understatement.

    About four months after that flood, the people had contacted various businesses and people/churches all over the US to come to "help" the school out.

    Today there stands on the grounds of LCS/LCF a state-of-the-art preschool building that in "our wildest dreams" could have NEVER been built and furnished with what funds and personnel the church/school had.

    Any one that tells me that God can't really do "above and beyond" what we think He can is, IMHO, "somewhat lacking" in his/her faith. :godisgood: :godisgood:

    "That's my story, and I'm sticking with it."
     

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