Kent Hovind Trial Nears End

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Pipedude, Nov 1, 2006.

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  1. Pipedude

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    The prosecution has rested its case and the defense will not present a case.

    http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200661101006

    I like Hovind. Probably everybody likes Hovind. He's a likable guy and an outstanding communicator. I just wish he'd had some sense to go along with his likability.

    I suspect that God is calling him to a prison ministry now.
     
  2. patrioticcamerican

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    I like Hovind too. It makes me sad to see so many people badmouthing him. I also think he's probably been made out to be a little more radical than what he really is. When people get ahold of a story like this...it's just almost inevitable. I saw people on the PNJ saying that he probably has a huge house (which he doesn't) and comparing him to Jim Baker, etc. I'm not saying I agree w/everything he's said--that's not really my point--but my point is that people are going a little overboard in their condemnation of him, and that I think it's silly to put people like tax protesters in jail. If they owe money, make them pay it off, but how are they supposed to pay it off from jail? And second of all, w/all the talk of prison overpopulation--jail/prison should be reserved for those who are dangerous to society. Not tax protesters, not other people whose crimes can be paid for by restitution or paying off what they owe. The reason people should be locked up is not to get it through their heads that they did something wrong, but rather to keep those who are dangerous to society locked up until they can realize that they have done something wrong and paid their "debt to society." Most people don't come out of jail thinking, "Wow, I sinned and that's offending God." That's where the church comes in. But I'm digressing really from the topic at hand. It's just that I do have issues with people being locked up for tax evasion. The IRS is already onto them. Require them to pay it back and move on with life. Don't waste taxpayer money on locking up tax protesters. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. That whole speech wasn't necessarily directed at your post, by the way, but it was just my long-brewing opinion (well, at least since yesterday) about this case. :)
     
  3. rbell

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    This guy claims to be a minister, yet he is a wanton lawbreaker, and is being dishonest in his defense. "I'm not a US citizen?" Please...

    I hate how much my tax bill is. I loathe paying it sometimes, when I see the graft and waste our government is guilty of (on both sides of the aisle).

    But I have a responsibility to follow Jesus' words...and "render unto Caesar." By openly disobeying Christ's words, Hovind is being an idiot, and is bringing reproach to the cause he champions.
     
  4. Rufus_1611

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    Wonderful post. I too believe the badmouthing of Mr. Hovind is overboard, especially within Christian circles. Your point about imprisonment is well stated too. I suspect that the motivation, in this case, for imprisonment doesn't have much to do with rehabilitation or restitution.
     
  5. patrioticcamerican

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    Thanks. Yeah, I kind of think they're trying to make an example of Hovind. I just read on the PNJ that he could be charged with up to 288 years and his wife with 225. It's so ridiculous. Over 200 years for...tax evasion?
     
  6. rbell

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    and child molesters get 20 years....go figure. On this we completely agree.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

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    It's interesting that no one seems to think he is innocent... :saint:

    I'm certain that they are. That's one of the purposes of our legal system, to make examples of those who violate the law. If they only slapped people on the wrist for cheating the government (and the rest of us) by not paying their fair share, then there would be little motivation for those who are corrupt to obey the letter of the law.

    By not paying his taxes, Mr. Hovind has revealed the nature of his character.
     
  8. rbell

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    wouldn't an appropriate punishment for Hovind involve him having to write "I love Charles Darwin" 1,000 times on a blackboard? He'd be a heckuva lot more contrite after that. He might even pay his back taxes to avoid such a horrific fate!
     
  9. Rufus_1611

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    I think he's innocent.

    He's been charged for "failure to collect". How about we let the IRS play the role of publican and let Hovind play the role of minister?

    He's been charged with structuring transactions to avoid reporting on that $10,000 dollar report requirement. If we are a free citizenry in a free country why do we have to tell the gov't whenever we want to withdraw our own money? 200+ years in jail for making a withdrawal from his own account?

    Hovind is not cheating the gov't, the gov't is cheating us and it is the gov't that is violating the law. It is congress that is responsible for coining money according to the constitution but they have abdicated that role to private interests. If the gov't wants more money all they do is have private bankers print more and charge us and our posterity for the interest. Those pieces of paper in your wallet do not represent "money" or "dollars" they are reserve notes and wholly without value and representative not of any real wealth. Thus, every year we become poorer and poorer because the inflation associated with this process steals our wealth and transfers it to the globalists.

    Thus, even if it were true, I am not offended that Hovind cheated me out of more value-less paper. It's the system that is corrupt, not the ones who stand against it.

    Concur. Nice to have some men willing to stand for what is right.


    "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford​
     
  10. Daisy

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    From what I understand, the government has been trying to make him pay, but he flat out refuses. He can pay from jail. He not only didn't pay his own taxes, but he didn't pay his employees' withholding tax either.

    How are they supposed to pay it back?
    No punishment for white collar crimes, just "restitution"? There really wouldn't be much practical incentive for obeying the law then.

    Why not?

    Tax evaders should be treated the same as non-violent thieves. Should burglars be allowed to repay what they stole and get on with their lives?
     
  11. rbell

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    How can he possibly be innocent? He refused to pay his taxes. Furthermore, he didn't pay the witholding for his employees!
    This man knowingly disobeyed the words of Jesus:

    Matthew 22:15-21 (NASB):


    15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said.
    16And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any.
    17"Tell us then, what do You think? Is it lawful to give a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?"
    18But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, "Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites?
    19"Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax." And they brought Him a denarius.
    20And He said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" 21They said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

    -------

    Does he deserve 200+ years? That's open for debate. Is he innocent? Absolutely not. His actions are shameful, illegal, and denigrate ministers, creationists, and his stupidity has cost his family and many employees dearly.
     
  12. Rufus_1611

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    You mean he chose not to be a tax collector? Shame on him.

    Certainly it is open for debate but it is clearly asinine. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles et al get lesser terms then what is being handed down to Hovind. Is it not clear that our gov't cares more about controlling people then it does protecting them?

    From the perspective of the IRS tax code he is guilty. From the perspective of the United States Constitution he is innocent.

    His actions are of a strong Christian character and represent a rare individual who will stand up against the governmental beast.

    The revolutionary war was fought over King George taxing the colonists at what amounted to less than 5%. Now we have a system that does not print money backed by silver or gold and controls the masses through excessive taxation. The fed takes 30%+ from the producers of this nation and after municipal, state, county et al, the average American is paying about 48-52% of their wealth to government. That might be alright if they were responsible with the money but we currently have an estimate $9 trillion+ in debt. Will we expect that we and our posterity will be taxed at 60%-70%-80% in the future in order to provide all of the socialist services and pay down that debt? Or will this wicked monetary system simply come crashing down like the deck of cards that it is? In addition, there is NO law requiring a U.S. citizen to pay income tax. For corrobaration of this please see -->http://www.freedomtofascism.com/. This is an excellent documentary by Aaron Russo exposing the tax sham.

    If you desire to have an enemy in this issue that you can defame, you may be better served to choose the entity that is not one of God's preachers.

    "Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD." - Proverbs 20:10
     
  13. patrioticcamerican

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    What I mean is that I think our legal system is supposed to give just punishment for those who truly break the law. I don't think it's supposed to make examples of them.
     
  14. Daisy

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    Well, actually it was for taxation without representation.
     
  15. patrioticcamerican

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    >>>>Quote from Daisy: From what I understand, the government has been trying to make him pay, but he flat out refuses. He can pay from jail. He not only didn't pay his own taxes, but he didn't pay his employees' withholding tax either.

    Response from Me: How can he pay from jail, exactly? Maybe I just don't understand. But unless he has the money right now to pay it back, how's he supposed to earn it in jail?

    >>No punishment for white collar crimes, just "restitution"? There really wouldn't be much practical incentive for obeying the law then.

    Me: Money is a powerful motivator. If someone knows he's going have to pay back three times what he stole if he's caught, that might make him think twice.

    Daisy: Why not?

    Me: The justice system isn't going to communicate wrong in the sense of "This or that is a sin against God and now you really understand that and are going to let God change your life. I think that's what I meant by "wrong" when I posted that yesterday.

    Me, originally: Tax evaders should be treated the same as non-violent thieves.

    Daisy:Should burglars be allowed to repay what they stole and get on with their lives?

    Me, from now on: Probably. If a short sentence was necessary, maybe that would be okay, but let's quit wasting the taxpayers money on criminals who need to make something right themselves. That was the law in the Bible. I'm not saying that we need to adopt all Old Testament laws for American laws today. I don't believe that, actually. But I do cite that example to show that it has worked in a previous civilization. If someone had to pay back three times what he stole, then not only has he been punished and hopefully deterred from repeated crime, but the victim has received some compensation for the harrowing experience of being stolen from. If all a criminal has happen to him is that he's locked up, where's the compensation for the victim?

    This has digressed somewhat from the original topic of Hovind, but I just wanted to address that issue.

    As far as the Hovinds, I think that they may have fared better had the whole case not involved their religious beliefs. But perhaps not. In any case, I feel sorry for his wife especially. She must feel terrible right now, watching her husband taken away to jail and knowing she'll face sentencing as well. I think all Christians need to pray for them--if you're not sure what to think, just pray that God's will will be done. He knows better than we do anyway.
     
  16. Martin

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    ==First. Kent Hovind is not one of God's preachers. The man continues to repeat "theories" that have been long rejected by Christian and non-Christian scientists. That means that either he has a honesty problem or that he has no clue what he is doing. It may very well be the latter since he holds questionable degrees from a non-accredited distance learning school.

    Second. Hovind is required, by the Word of God, to pay his taxes. Even if the taxes are unfair, even if the taxes are against the US Constitution. He is required by Scripture to pay his taxes.

    "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities...For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; dustom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another..." -Rom 13:1a,5-8.

    If you think the situation in Rome was better than the situation in the modern United States, maybe I should give a brief ancient history lesson here on the men who rulered Rome when Paul wrote this letter. There is also the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself paid taxes (Matt 17:24-27). Why? He said, "so that we do not offend them". Christians should pay their taxes.

    I am sick and tired of self-proclaimed Christians trying to use the Bible to support their unBiblical causes. The bottom line here is very simple.
     
  17. Magnetic Poles

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    So did Dr. Dino Hovind withhold employee taxes and not pay the IRS?

    Maybe he will join Mr. Skilling and Mr. Ebbers in a cozy cell!!
     
  18. patrioticcamerican

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    Hovind is being locked up right now until sentencing, because according to the judge he was a flight risk but also a "danger to the community." A danger to the community??? I don't think so. (See the Pensacola News Journal from today (Friday).
     
  19. Rufus_1611

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    I would far prefer to pay 5% without representation than 50% with the so called representation we have today.
     
  20. Rufus_1611

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    Hovind defends the Word of God and defines the premise that God created this World in 6 days according to scripture as scripture describes. Just because you prefer to listen to "science so called" over scripture does not mean that Kent is not a preacher of the Word of God.

    What taxes is a non-profit church required to pay? Once upon a time they were exempt from state taxes. Is he not also required to obey the laws of the land? If the constitution says one thing and the IRS says another, which in good conscience, is he required to follow?

    Where did he get the denarius for those taxes? From a preacher?

    I am sick and tired of self-proclaimed Christians who have succumbed so far into state idolatry that they would prefer to defend the state, than they would a brother in Christ.
     
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