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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brutus, Sep 5, 2010.
I would like to hear from both proponents and opponents of this issue. what are the pros and cons?
Have not studied the term Keswick Theology but this was informative.......http://www.bcmedu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=138
I don't have time right now, but I do have this article on Oswald Chambers, a teacher who to a considerable degree exemplified Keswick influences. There is further info on the movement in the article:
I am not sure exactly what the point is, but I cannot possibly see how anyone can expect to know or even come close to understanding any of the mysteries of the faith unless they walk in obedience by faith in Jesus Christ. When one does not yield to the challenges God places before him then I would assume that their growth stops until he yields to God. It seems to me that growth and having a relationship with God is dependent on God and our willingness to let Him lead. A number of the things Chambers wrote I never understood until I went through some tough times and was challenged every step of the way to walk with God by faith not knowing exactly where I was going but knowing that He was perfecting me.
I used to hold Chambers in high regard, as you seem to now. A number of the things Chambers wrote I never understood until I went through some tough times myself and was challenged every step of the way to seek out in Scripture the proper response to the afflictions that, up until that time, I wasn't even aware of. It was at the this time that I began to (slowly at first) see the unbiblical teachings of some of Chambers' teaching.
The point of the article - and the point of mentioning it here - is the affinity Chambers' teaching has with Keswick's.
Maybe I am interpreting what he said in light of a different background of mine than his, so it is possible that I see things differently than you do and not as he wrote them. What is it in particular that you disagree with Chambers about?
It seems to me that what he writes is much the same sort of thing that was written at that time by others when it was not unusual to write a devotional using a text as a spring board for something.
I have six points of disagreements with Chambers. I would go through them here, but it is time for bed. They are enumerated as my subtitles in the article I posted a link to. The article is mine. The article has seven subtitles. The first one ("Next to, of course, the Bible...") is not a point of disagreement, but the following subtitles are. Each section goes into much greater detail. Here is the link again:
"All God's revelations are sealed until they are opened to us by obedience. You will never get them open by philosophy or thinking. Immediately you obey, a flash of light comes. Let God's truth work in you by soaking in it, not by worrying into it. The only way you can get to know is to stop trying to find out and by being born again. Obey God in the thing He shows you, and instantly the next thing is opened up. One reads tomes on the work of the Holy Spirit, when one five minutes of drastic obedience would make things as clear as a sunbeam. "I suppose I shall understand these things some day!" You can understand them now. It is not study that does it, but obedience. The tiniest fragment of obedience, and heaven opens and the profoundest truths of God are yours straight away. God will never reveal more truth about Himself until you have obeyed what you know already. Beware of becoming "wise and prudent."
He misses the point that obedience has to be based on knowledge. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free". At no time should we downplay the further pursuit of knowledge, rather we are to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2nd Peter 3:18). We are to dedicate ourselves to a study of God's Word, though not neglecting the inner life of meditation and prayer.By studying Christ's Word we become more Christlike (2nd Cor. 3:18), we "save ourselves" and others (2nd Tim. 3:15; 1st Tim. 4:16) and much more. So doctrine is very important.
I would agree with him and disagree with you in that obedience comes at God's command not always our knowledge. Those commands may comes in the form of scripture but they may also come in the form of wisdom. Some of that wisdom may come in the midst of trials (James 1:5) It seems that your point of view is a rationalistic view of God and that He cannot work apart from your knowledge. I cannot tell you the number of times I have finally understood something in scripture as I stood on someone's door step. I find that answers to prayer and God speaking to me have nothing to do with knowledge but an active relationship with him. I have had God answer very specific prayers in ways that were very specific. How can God's revelations be open to someone with a hard heart who is a fool? Until his heart is open he sees nothing. They cannot even see God's hand in front of them. They do not even see God's hand in the individual leaves on a tree. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
In Genesis 12 when Abraham left his country to go to a desolate area was that because of knowledge or because of obedience? The text says that he went out not knowing where he was going? I think the point is that Abraham knew God. That does not come by intellectual knowledge. If all God wants someone to be, America would be the most spiritual country in the world. We have more resources than anywhere. Certainly there are more Bibles per capita and percentage who can read is some of the best in the world.
I don't believe for one second that anyone can understand the mysteries of the faith by just studying doctrine. It comes by a living relationship with God in obedience as His slave who is willing to to do what the master requires. That is applied doctrine. The results of the commands are not known until done.
Keswick theology promotes second-blessing theology, a second act of grace by the Holy Spirit.
Their slogan, "Let go and let God".
This type of theology preys upon those in dire conditions, addicts and dependent personalities that look for quick fixes.
P.S. There's a book and an audio interview regarding Keswick Theology at this site [LINK]
I would agree
The idea of obtaining perfection in the physical body is a ruse and not taught by the scriptures at all
The Keswick theology promotes a definite falsehood for the purpose of attracting and deceiving the membership .... and holding them by a very legalistic form of doctrine
Many "christian" cults use this same form of control [actually a form of mind control]
They point to the scriptures that tell of the Lord's view of the believer after one's conversion which is one of sinless perfection [but only because of what He has done to save them .... not what they have done or do themselves]
But they ingore scriptures that tell just the opposite related to the believer's continued imperfection while still in the physical body
There is no contradiction here, and both are biblical truths
Bottom line .... Keswick is denying one's need for salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His willingness and ability to save
This is heritical teaching and the various forms of this lie are rampant today and can be found in a multitude of "professing" christian organizations
One can begin their journey and learn the Lord's messages in the scriptures with His guidance .... He will withhold nothing that He has intended to reveal .... but it does take time and due diligence on the part of the believer
But the believer in the physical body is still subject to error even though saved ..... and can even walk away from their own salvation if they choose to do so
From what you write it seems like Pentecostalism from Benny Hinn. I think there is time when we must let go and other times where we must hang on and endure.
Great Article! Thanks for posting this.