Kim Jong Il may be dead,but his illustrious great spirit lives on in police state USA

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    Do America's political leaders also worship Kim Jong Il?


    As it turns out, there may be more in common between North Korea and the United States than you ever imagined. One of Kim Jong Il's great admirers must be, of course, U.S. President Barack Obama who has:

    1) Advocated an "indefinite detention" bill that allows the U.S. military to secretly kidnap and "disappear" citizens just like they do in North Korea (http://www.naturalnews.com/034414_N...).


    2) In doing this, he has thereby expanded the role of Gitmo and other secret prisons in the USA, even after he promised to shut them down.​

    3) His administration has modeled the TSA's "reach down your pants" police state searches after Kim Jong Il's illustrious sexual escapades involving the young women of his choice.​

    4) His administration plots false flag attacks against his own countrymen with hare-brained schemes such as Operation Fast & Furious, a failed government gun-running setup that was designed to cause escalating gun violence and a reactionary call for abolishing the Second Amendment (http://www.naturalnews.com/033628_O...).​

    North Korea would be proud... these are tactics right out of Kim's playbook! And in terms of making Obama look like a god, check out all the incredible propaganda found across mainstream media photos that try to place a "halo" around Obama's head, just like this Associated Press photo:
    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/14/...

    (Search Google images for "Obama halo" to find hundreds more...)​

    In fact, watch this hilarious parody video showing North Koreans weeping in the streets over Obama's delayed Hawaiian vacation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGFm...







     
  2. Sapper Woody

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    As horrible as the bill is, don't put your own words into it. Citizens would not "disappear" as you stated. Don't take a truth and push your own agenda by adding to it. Let the truth speak for itself. Also, doing so lends your arguments more credibility. All you are doing by adding things is defeating your own cause.

    I don't see this, but if that's what you believe is going to happen, then you are entitled to your opinion.

    Examples?

    I found the reading interesting, yet again I can't trust the source. They basically called all of America stupid, and wrote the article so as to show clear bias against the government, instead of reporting only facts.

    With that being said, it does bring up questions about Obama which need answering, but there was no evidence in the story to show that the "cover up story" wasn't true. Guns don't need tracking devices, and these devices would only be discovered anyway. Guns have serial numbers. When these guns showed up, we could begin a networking. That's how intelligence works, by connecting one person with another until you have the whole picture.

    This is just a presidential thing that evidently started with George W Bush. If you notice, when you google "Bush Halo", you get just as many hits (all George W, none George Sr). But none for "Clinton Halo", or "Reagan Halo"; you get nothing except Obama and George W.
     
  3. TCassidy

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    I agree. The bill is terrible enough without adding editorial hyperbole.
    Actually the prisoner population of Gitmo has gone down significantly. In 2005 there were around 505 prisoners, and in the spring of 2011 (the last time period I have any numbers for) that number was down to 171.
    Border Patrol Check Points 60 miles from the border stopping cars and demanding to search without warrants or probable cause, expanding TSA from airports to include train stations and bus stations, and TSA agents are already posted at some Border Patrol Checkpoints.
    The facts are that the United States Department of Justice conspired to provide firearms to the Mexican drug cartels that resulted in the deaths of over 300 Mexicans and at least one US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
    But the point is that, when those illegal guns turned up it would provide an excuse to violate the 2nd Amendment even more or, possibly, do away with it all together. Make no mistake, O'bama represents Chicago machine politics at its very worst. He is a gun grabber who has no respect at all for the Civil Rights of the American people.
     
  4. Crabtownboy

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    No!




    Originally passed under the Patriot Act under G. Bush.

    All opened under the Bush administration.

    TSA, begun under the Bush administration.

    Show me where anyone has called for the repeal of the 2nd amendment. Links please.








     
  5. poncho

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    Classic. I suppose it's all Bush's fault that Obama eagerly accepted all of Bush's expanded powers and has been expanding on em and running amuck with em ever since.

    Right? That's all Bush's fault too, right?

    I was just reading an article you might be interested in Crabby. Let me share it with ya.

    Lately there has been a minor imbroglio in the blogosphere between progressive stalwart Roy Edroso and Salon.com columnist Glenn Greenwald. The former took umbrage at the latter's comparison of the foreign policy positions of Barack Obama and Ron Paul. I won't bore you with the meat of the matter, but I would like to focus momentarily on Edroso's umbrage, which is so unfortunately emblematic of the progressosphere at large.

    In sum, Edroso's "eyes filled with blood, he said -- from outrage and insult, presumably -- at Greenwald's description of what any supporter for Barack Obama is actually supporting. To wit:

    Yes, I’m willing to continue to have Muslim children slaughtered by covert drones and cluster bombs, and America’s minorities imprisoned by the hundreds of thousands for no good reason, and the CIA able to run rampant with no checks or transparency, and privacy eroded further by the unchecked Surveillance State, and American citizens targeted by the President for assassination with no due process, and whistleblowers threatened with life imprisonment for “espionage,” and the Fed able to dole out trillions to bankers in secret, and a substantially higher risk of war with Iran (fought by the U.S. or by Israel with U.S. support) ...

    This, it seems to me, is the most basic statement of unequivocal, undeniable fact imaginable. It is simply true that if you support the continuance of Barack Obama in power, this is what you support. I have been pointing this out from various angles here for years; Arthur Silber was pointing out exactly what supporting Obama meant even before the candidate of hope and change was elected. (See this, for example, from 2007.) There is nothing new in Greenwald's recitation of the blunt, plain, unvarnished facts.

    Yet confronting this reality -- the actual reality of what supporting Barack Obama and his policies means -- caused Edroso's progressive eyes to "fill with blood." All he could muster in answer was an ironic jibe at Greenwald for acting like a pantomime villain -- "Jesus, Glenn, why not add 'Mwah hah hah' ... while you're at it?" -- for simply stating the mundane truth.


    CONTINUE . . .


    As Matt Stoller argued in a genuinely brilliant essay on the history of progressivism and the Democratic Party which I cannot recommend highly enough: “the anger [Paul] inspires comes not from his positions, but from the tensions that modern American liberals bear within their own worldview.” Ron Paul’s candidacy is a mirror held up in front of the face of America’s Democratic Party and its progressive wing, and the image that is reflected is an ugly one; more to the point, it’s one they do not want to see because it so violently conflicts with their desired self-perception.

    SOURCE

    What do you see in the mirror Crabby?

    Reply to Sapper and TC. Here's the beef.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=76168

    How about another helping?

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27561
     
    #5 poncho, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2012
  6. TCassidy

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    I have read everything you referenced and I can't seem to find where you, or any of the referenced authors, showed my information to be incorrect. You stated:
    I posted the fact that during the Bush administration there were 505 prisoners at Gitmo. As of last May, in the 3rd year of the Obama administration, that number has been reduced to 171. How does going from 505 to 171 constitute and expansion of Gitmo?

    If your church attendance went from 505 to 171 would you say you are expanding by leaps and bounds? :)
     
  7. poncho

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    Obama signed the NDAA what a couple days ago? Give it awhile will ya?

    Even the great Obama can't move the wheels of tyranny that fast. Look at it as a prediction. That's how I looked at it.

    Oh and by btw I am not the author of this OP so stop trying to put his words in my mouth. I don't do that sort of thing with you folks. Let me ask you a question. Do you agree with everything the authors say and think in the articles you post? Are you so like minded as they that I should attribute their every word to you?

    If so than just say so and I'll be glad to start quoting them as if the words came out of your mouth from now on.

    Oh yeah I almost forgot. While you were busy reading everything I referenced which is quite a feat considering how deep the links go did you discover anything of real importance you'd like to discuss?

    Don't let our friend TC fool ya folks what he's doing very crudely here is propaganda tips and tricks 101.

    Attack what looks like the weakest point in your opponent's arguement and act as if by debunking this one (rather silly) point you've won the whole debate. Seen this all before TC. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #7 poncho, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2012
  8. Crabtownboy

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    And which no Republican congressman/woman voted for that bill, right? ROFL

    Did you oppose the Patriot Bill and other bills passed during Bush's two terms in office ... or did you support them?
     
  9. poncho

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    No fair Crabby. I asked you a question. In a debate one person asks a question and the other one answers and it goes back and forth like that. I'm still waiting on your answer.

    What do you see in the mirror?

    Besides I answered your question the day after I joined BB. Some of the old timers here are no doubt having a good chuckle over your question.

    Let's put like this, I was against Bush's attack on civil liberties back then the way you should be against the expanded and continued attack on civil liberties by Obama today. In that reguard (my consistant championing of basic democratic principles through many administrations no matter which party was or is in power) I think I'm the better democrat here and I ain't even a democrat! What say you about that?

    What do you see in the mirror now?
     
    #9 poncho, Jan 3, 2012
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  10. TCassidy

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    You must have a reading comprehension problem. I am the one who supplied Sapper Woody with information that supported several of the assertions. How exactly is agreeing with you propaganda?
     
  11. poncho

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    Maybe I'm just old and tired out and not used to having people agree with me. I've been in the fight for liberty for a long time man. I've viewed this creeping tyranny through a microscope through several adminstrations now and the clear and consistant continuity of it all sometimes just bows my mind.

    Seriously I've come to expect that the great majority of BBers will accept any tyranny short of outlawing the preaching of the gospel, I don't generally run across too many here (that stay for long) who can see past the political theater and party politics long enough to actually debate politics.

    Guess I'm just getting rusty.

    Sorry excuse huh?
     
  12. J.D.

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    I was kind of expecting something like this to happen. As late as a year ago I was being disgusted with your posts and am reluctant to admit you were right about some things. I still think you and Lew Rockwell are a little over the top, but basically you've won me over.

    Edit: By the way, I find Buchanan's views better than Paul's, particularly on immigration, but Pat is not running.
     
    #12 J.D., Jan 3, 2012
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  13. Sapper Woody

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    We'll see if the prediction about the "secret prisons" comes true. Again, I personally do not see it happening. I don't put it past the President, I just think that it would hurt his chances for re-election, and he knows it.

    About searches along the border, I actually agree with that. If someone wants to enter the country, they should be subjected to a vehicle search. They should not be treated as if they are criminals, and they should be actively involved in the search, watching everything that is touched/moved. After all, America is at war. If we're not searching vehicles, all our enemies have to do is fly to Canada/Mexico and drive in to our country.

    I am against the TSA having as much power as it does. I think a simple "take off your jackets (so that anything protruding from clothing, such as non-metallic bomb components, are visible) and step through the metal detector" should suffice.
     
  14. TCassidy

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    That makes two of us. :) I too have been around for quite a few decades, and have seen the encroachment upon our liberty, slow but sure, over the past 50 years or so. It has been so slow that most people don't even notice it.
    Unfortunately it seems that the average BBer is rather too much like the average American. Food on the table, roof over my head, and mindless entertainment on TV and they are satisfied. Never seeming to notice the creeping loss of our civil rights to an increasingly more and more totalitarian government. :(

    I am too old and too tired to fight back as hard as I once did, but I fear for my grandsons. They live in a world very different from the one I grew up in. The one based on the concepts of liberty I fought to preserve. :(
     
  15. TCassidy

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    Yeah, I doubt it will go as far as the OP suggests.
    I have no problem with persons being identified, and searched if necessary AT THE BORDER. My problem is with checkpoints 40 or 50 miles from the border where detainment and search without benefit of warrant or any reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has been, is now, or is about to be committed.
    But we are not talking about the border. We are talking about unreasonable detentions and searches miles and miles from the border.
    I agree. TSA doesn't have a clue how to identify a problem when it is right in front of them. Instead they waste their (and our) time, money, and resources taking cuticle scissors and knitting needles away from 100 year old women in wheel chairs. (Not hyperbole. It happened to my mother.)
     
  16. poncho

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    Look J.D. sometimes I'm even disgusted with my own posts. I've had so many verbal handgrenades tossed at me I flinch every now and again. I'm disgusted that I have to call hypocrites by their real name. Hypocrites.

    But what am I supposed to call people who'll go to great lengths to defend an obviously criminal state while condemning those brutally oppressed by it? I haven't the time or will to sit here and make up tender and pleasant sounding euphemisms that make blatant naked hypocrissy sound honorable. I just haven't got it in me anymore.

    Is Lew over the top? Maybe. I know Alex Jones goes above and beyond more often than he should but these guys are getting at the roots of all our problems. What am I to do? I want to know the truth. Good, bad or ugly. The corporate mass media isn't about to tell us the unvarnished truth. It isn't there to do that. It's there to manipulate public opinion and keep us divided and pleasantly distracted. That's it! That's all it's there for. Period.

    So we're stuck with two choices either we believe whatever the corporations tell us through their control of the mass conglmerated media (5 or 6 mega corporations control it all and their boards all interconnect with military contractors like GE, which controls over 50% of NBC for one example and other war profiteering corporations and the financiers that enable them) or we turn to the alternative media and have to filter through tons of raw information and junk to glean a little pure unadulterated and historically correct (as far as humanly possible) honest to goodness factual documented information.

    You'd think a person who'd go to all this trouble to find and relay the little nuggets of honest to goodness truth he stumbles on would be allowed a little mistake or two now and again. But not here. Nope. It's like blood in the water and it draws in all the sharks for miles around. Watch em sometime. You'll see what I mean. First one will start the process then another will join in until finally it's like being surrounded by a class of second graders taunting you and pulling your hair. It's infantile to say the least.

    Most people won't go to all that trouble. Most people are happy to be blissfully ignorant. I'm not. And I guess that's my big crime here. I won't settle for the garbage being peddled as truth by a few slick haired corporate talking heads that would sell their mother, brother, sister, country and soul to be nationally syndicated on "prime time".

    That may be good enough for most folks here abouts but it ain't good enough for me. Hey, that must make me a "truther"! The scum of the earth that will take the difficult path to find the truth instead of just following a herd of cattle like people with itching ears down the easy path.

    Never been one to swim with the current. Ain't about to start now.

    I'm old and getting rusty. I'm tired of hearing all the partisan hackery that added up amounts to nothing more than a waste of time and energy. I'm tired of all the endless debates about which corporate controlled bagman would make a better president. It's meaningless mumbo jumbo. Rest assured the next "president" we get is gonna be one we richly deserve. And man do I hope I'm wrong about that.
     
    #16 poncho, Jan 3, 2012
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  17. J.D.

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    Well, I understand how hard it is to rise above the fray when receiving a beat down. Been there, done that.

    My concern with Alex Jones today is the same concern I've always had with conspiracy theory - while on one hand, some of it is undeniable (like the workings of the CFR, secrecy of the Fed, etc.), it's always mixed with speculative and fantastic assumptions. What I've always said about JBS is that while I don't think they're right about everything they say, everything they've predicted is coming true. Where there's smoke, there's a source of heat, and there must be something to it.

    But one of those fantastic speculations that I've been interested in lately is the alleged plan to drastically reduce the population of the world. I'm becoming convinced it's real. I am planning a trip to see the Georgia Guidestones (Stonehenge) later this month to see the script with my own eyes, and so my grandchildren can see for themselves that there are at least SOME people in the world whose goal in life is to kill the rest of us.
     
  18. billwald

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    >Do America's political leaders also worship Kim Jong Il?

    No, they worship Lincoln, who drove the first nail in our coffin.
     
  19. poncho

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    Yeah that's a sickness called Malthusianism. The idea that the elite class was born to rule over the rest of us like we're their cattle. To be culled when our numbers become to great, for our own good of course.

    Look into Thomas Malthus for more on it. Kings and nobles have thought that way since there have been kings and nobles. We're just to dense to understand that we've been conditioned to believe (by the Malthusians) down the centuries that it's our duty to be obediant to these sociopaths.

    I don't believe it's my duty to serve this garbage and I don't believe it's the duty of anyone here to serve them either. Unfortunately the majority of people here seem to disagree with me about it, adamantly.
     
    #19 poncho, Jan 5, 2012
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  20. J.D.

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    Funny you should mention that. I recently finish the most thorough study of Lincoln and the causes of the War that I ever did and am more convinced than ever that his real objective was the destruction of the Constitution and the founding of a Hamiltonian central government. It was the American version of the French Revolution.

    After all the reading and research it came down to understanding two basic documents (speeches) - Lincoln's first inaugural address in which he discounts the role of the Supreme Court and the Constitution itself and gives majority opinion the highest office; and Jeff Davis' inaugural address in which he clearly establishes the fact that the North had violated the provisions of the contract (Constitution), rendering it null and void, and unenforceable. Lincoln claimed that the Union (note, not the Constitution) is an ever-lasting contract from which the parties thereto can never withdraw, regardless of circumstances, and was to be ruled by a majority (meaning, the north).

    Interesting trivia: How many people know that Lincoln ordered the arrest of the man who swore him into office (who happened to be the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court)?
     

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