King Jesus?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Tim, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. Tim

    Tim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    0
    With all the eschatological banter about the kingdom/millenium going on, I was just wondering--Do we at least agree that Jesus Christ is now reigning as King?

    If so, in what way?
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Col. 1:13 (ESV)
    He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

    Col. 4:11 (ESV)
    and Jesus who is called Justus. These are the only men of the circumcision among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God, and they have been a comfort to me.

    The apostle Paul certainly referred to the kingdom as a present reality.

    Jesus rules in the hearts of His people - right now.
     
  3. Tim

    Tim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    0
    KenH,

    Apparently there is less agreement than I had hoped for--but thanks for yours!

    Tim
     
  4. Phil310

    Phil310
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus said "the kingdom of God is within you." He reigns right now, in the here and now in my heart and as far as I'm concerned. The lost world may not realize it, but one day "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord."

    Enjoying His reign NOW!
    Looking forward to it THEN!

    Phil310
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Make the clear distinction - Jesus IS the King in the kingdom of the hearts of men.

    But if He is King ruling over the earth today (rod of iron, putting all his enemies under his feet, et al, as Psalm 2 & Rev clearly state) then He is a miserable failure as King.

    He WILL BE KING when He returns and establishes His Kingdom.

    And for all eternity, for He will offer up His (LITERAL, PHYSICAL) kingdom to the Father for an eternal kingdom (I Cor 15).
     
  6. superdave

    superdave
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,055
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paul talked about the world getting worse and worse, he did not teach that Christ was the current literal ruler over the earth. I agree with Dr. Bob, the King is Coming, in the future to place all kingdoms under his throne. He may reign in the hearts of the Church, yes, but his literal physical monarchy will not begin until his return to earth following the Tribulation.

    I would agree that he is my King, I would not equate that with the millenial reign, which I believe will be a literal reality
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isn't there a problem with this idea of a physical kingdom? Isn't that the same idea that the Jews of Jesus days on earth had and led in large part to their rejection of Him.

    Also, how do you physical kingdom people get around:

    John 18:36 (ESV)
    Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world."

    Aren't you physical kingdom people attempting to negate what Jesus said?
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,844
    Likes Received:
    255
    Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords.

    Always was, always will be.

    Proverbs 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
     
  9. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ken, the key is the "Title Deed to the Earth."

    Christ opens the seals in Revelation - a future event.

    Right now, Satan has dominion over the earth. But when Jesus Christ comes back to rule & reign with a Rod Of Iron, it will be after the seals are broken on the Title Deed to the Earth. [​IMG]
     
  10. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    And a whole bunch of we Baptists disagree with you.

    I see you didn't deal with my question as to why you and other physical kingdom people apparently are trying to negate the plain words of Jesus that His kingdom is not of this world. Instead you retreated to debatable symbolic language that Baptists do not agree on the meaning of.
     
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    And a whole bunch of we Baptists disagree with you.</font>[/QUOTE]Disagree all you want to, but you are still wrong...as you will find out the moment the trumpet sounds and Jesus appears in the clouds.

    Oh, I thought the thread was about this:

    Do we at least agree that Jesus Christ is now reigning as King?


    The Kingdom of Jesus Christ is not of this world or in this world at the present time. But it is in the hearts of men (and women).


    Matthew 4:[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

    [10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Ephesians 6:[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


    Doesn't your SBC church teach anything about Bible prophecy? Or do you just disagree with them disagreeably, too?

    [ December 24, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: LadyEagle ]
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    1) Ditto back to you as you will find out that your dispensational premillennialism is oh so wrong when the Day of the Lord arrives. Mark that I only said dispensational premillennialism. I consider historical premillennialism to have a Biblical basis and it may be true. Then again, maybe postmillennialism is true, or maybe amillennialism is true, or maybe all of them are off base. The only eschatology I have totally ruled out is dispensational premillennialism. I have at least some confidence in the pre-1830s eschatologies.

    2) I disagree but I don't do so publicly. Debating on a bulletin board is one thing, debating eschatology in person is not something I wish to do. I dislike personal confrontation as I write better than I talk. I have found that in person debates become much, much too heated on any controversial subject. In person, I tend to avoid confrontation.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, LadyEagle,

    Merry CHRISTmas to you and yours! [​IMG]
     
  14. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ditto back to you.... [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob Griffin said:

    But if He is King ruling over the earth today (rod of iron, putting all his enemies under his feet, et al, as Psalm 2 & Rev clearly state) then He is a miserable failure as King.

    Psalm 50 says the entire world and all its fullness belongs to God. I didn't see anywhere that he ceded ownership to someone else.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Belongs to God? Yep. He has first claim, for certain.

    But is Jesus the "king" - absolute ruler and every knee in submission to Him, rod of iron, etc?

    Ludicrous.

    But WILL happen when the "god of this world", the "prince of the power of the air" (SATAN) is bound in a literal bottomless pit and Jesus sits on a literal throne of His father David and rules the earth.

    Today, he's "King" in a kingdom of hearts. Then he will be "King" over heaven and earth.

    So I pray . . "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" Some day, Lord. Soon.
     
  17. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob Griffin:

    But is Jesus the "king" - absolute ruler and every knee in submission to Him, rod of iron, etc?

    Ludicrous.


    There are diehard Al Gore supporters who say Bush is "not my president" because he supposedly "stole" the election in 2000. Does their existence mean that the Bush 43 presidency is illegitimate?

    Ludicrous.

    The refusal of Christ's subjects to submit to Christ's rule does not nullify his kingship.
     
  18. Tim

    Tim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of the great tragedies of the dipensational system is the refusal of so many to see Christ enthroned today --regardless of what you believe may happen in the future. Especially when the N.T. makes it so clear that He was granted that postion by virtue of His victorious resurrection. Then Christ's enemies were defeated--now He rules in the midst of His enemies just as the O.T. prophesied and the N.T. confirms:

    Psalms 110:1-2 &lt;&lt;A Psalm by David.&gt;&gt; The LORD says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet." The Lord will send forth the rod of your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of your enemies.

    Acts 2:29-36 "Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was his soul left in Hades, nor did his flesh see decay. This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear. For David didn't ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit by my right hand, Until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."' "Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."

    Hebrews 8:1 Now in the things which we are saying, the main point is this. We have such a high priest, who sat down on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

    Hebrews 12:2 looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Revelation 3:21 He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.


    Again, can't we all at least agree that Jesus now reigns as King--sitting at the right hand (the postion of active rulership) of the Father?

    Tim
     
  19. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent point. [​IMG]
     
  20. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Oh, this discussion is just silly.
     

Share This Page

Loading...