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Featured Kingdom Rule

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Nov 4, 2012.

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  1. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11 Member
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    Have you never read Hebrews? The entire book is a description of the New Covenant. If you do not believe in the Covenant described therein, then to what is the writer referring, if not to a literal Covenant between God and man?
     
    #21 michael-acts17:11, Nov 5, 2012
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    We have the testimony of TWO concerning WHEN the Kingdom started:

    1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying,
    2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3

    17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4

    16 The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and every man entereth violently into it. Lu 16
     
    #22 kyredneck, Nov 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2012
  3. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11 Member
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    You have to use your handy dandy dispy decoder ring to understand that "is at hand" is code for "thousands of years from now. :rolleyes:
     
    #23 michael-acts17:11, Nov 5, 2012
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Oh really? They have a decoder ring now? I'm still stuck back in the old days with all the charts, diagrams, and manuals.

    I gotta get me one of those rings.... :D
     
    #24 kyredneck, Nov 5, 2012
  5. timf

    timf Member

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    Sounds like you are inviting someone to take the bait.

    Like gang members on a street corner the challenge in joined and the ante is "upped".

    The bait is taken

    Having been able to flush out someone to attack, the game is afoot.

    The quarry begins to see the trap.

    As an observer here and having seen thousands of posts over many years I can say that there are those who seek combat as if the emotional surge of self-righteousness produced a narcotic effect. I hope what I have read on this thread is just bad manners and not indicative of the deeper problem of cyber bullies.

    I have had a discussion with Van on this subject on another thread and even thought we were not able to persuade each other of our different positions, I think that we were able to keep our conversation more civil.

    At some point we need to ask ourselves if our conversation is honoring to our Savior.
     
    #25 timf, Nov 5, 2012
  6. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski New Member

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    "At some point we need to ask ourselves if our conversation is honoring to our Savior. "

    If that happened, we wouldn't have a lot to read here. So why don't we just shut it down? Nothing ever gets settled.
     
    #26 Bronconagurski, Nov 5, 2012
  7. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    The new covenant mentioned in Hebrews is detailed in Jeremiah, 31:31-40. Have you ever read Jeremiah 31? I didn't think so.
     
    #27 thomas15, Nov 5, 2012
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yes.

    This truth is the sole paradigm by which we are able to understand the New Testament (the whole Bible for that matter) and most especially our duty before God- the Great Commission.
     
    #28 Luke2427, Nov 5, 2012
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Luke 16:16 the law and the prophets [are] till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into

    Matt 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
    Matt 24:14 and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive. (The end of the age verse 3? The age of what?)

    1 Cor 15:50 And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood (that which is subject to death) the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption (that which is subject to death and has died.) inherit the incorruption;
    Luke 20:35,36 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, (The age following the end of this age?) and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more (No longer subject to corruption) -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' Luke 18:16,17 and Jesus having called them near, said, `Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the reign of God; verily I say to you, Whoever may not receive the reign of God as a little child, may not enter into it.' John 3:7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;

    Are the called out ones subject to the laws of and rule of God? Without a doubt.

    However they have not been born into the kingdom yet and neither is the kingdom age present upon the earth at this time. IMHO.
     
    #29 percho, Nov 5, 2012
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    kyredneck

    Another really good post..with several helpful verses.


    Daily....seems to be one main puzzle piece.


    This and several other texts from the OT...are solid indicators of what and how we are to function as ...as the Holy Nation....of Kings and priests.
    So many of the OT prophecies can and do speak to us right now if we let them.

    The shadow of the Holy nation

    The Nt fulfillment....Christian Israel...the reality.
    This is a core teaching on our sacrifices as believer priests

    free from sin...free to serve:thumbs:

    Part of the covenant language that God's people come to understand, God's loyal love.

    federal headship.....alive In Christ only
    5
    This clearly sounds like it is part of the already!


    Looks like the reign is on earth.....it just depends on who has the right prophetic calendar as to how the reign manifests.

    Here the saints are said to reign with Jesus...it does not say they reign on earth ,like those who have not left their body yet, however.
    While it is possible....the text does not specify


    For sure all saints overcome by the blood of the Lamb...the "sending" of the angel[vs6] seems to indicate they are sent to us who are still here, before we leave our physical body.
     
    #30 Iconoclast, Nov 5, 2012
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    thomas15
    While God is the eternal King....he has spoken of the establishing of His eternal reign in time...with the elect entering the Kingdom...in real time.
    I personally believe the Kingdom really begins with The truimphal entry and many rejecting the King....who in response has prepared the Apostles to set forth the foundation of the christian Israel...the church.
    And not just...a church age...as I was previously led to believe....but the beginning of the reign of the heavens...coming to earth that is consumated on the last day.1cor15

    I do not believe Jesus returned in Ad 70....I think He came in judgement like many times in the OT.

    .

    Well Thomas...do not get upset but I agree with you here.:thumbs:

    .

    Well the details are there and evident....we differ on when and how they are implemented
    You alone believe this.Certain words and theological terms are not there , but the teaching is. It seems as if you do not really want to dialog seriously about this topic.

    It is only the covenant that provides for the grace of God in salvation.Man would not have been created unless Jesus was to already be appointed as mediator of the covenant before the world was.


    I do not think the Op was about that.You do not believe in the in covenants of promise so why would i address you on it. You are set to resist. if in the future I can help you on it ...i would.:thumbs:

    All of the rest of the church and saints who went before us believed this so I will stay with them and other like minded brothers.
     
    #31 Iconoclast, Nov 5, 2012
  12. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    AHA!!!!! Thanks for explaining the intent of your thread! It's a great question and discussion to have indeed! :wavey: (I'll have to look up the definitions of "theonomy guys" and "christian reconstruction guys") but, I would love to get back with you on this, and hear what you have learned or come to believe about these things.
     
    #32 HeirofSalvation, Nov 6, 2012
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Ro 10:9

    What do you think; is this a 'one time event', or is it to be done daily?

    A formula/incantation to be performed only once and then SHAZAAM, IMMORTALITY ACHIEVED? Or a way of life?
     
    #33 kyredneck, Nov 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2012
  14. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11 Member
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    The next verse answers your question.

    Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Salvation is a one time event.
     
    #34 michael-acts17:11, Nov 6, 2012
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No, it doesn't answer the question.

    .....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. Phil 2:12,13

    Regeneration, i.e. the birth from above, is a 'one time event'. Salvation is an on going affair throughout the believer's life.
     
    #35 kyredneck, Nov 6, 2012
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hos


    Theonomy and reconstruction guys;

    http://www.reformedreader.org/rbs/tarba.htm


    http://www.forerunner.com/theonomy/theofaq.html
     
    #36 Iconoclast, Nov 6, 2012
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello Kyred,

    As God saves His people from their sins...they continue on being conformed to the image of the Son.
    What i am trying to slowly focus in on is as we are saved from our sins, how does it manifest itself in terms of the gospel of ....THE KINGDOM.

    There is a distinct emphasis not on salvation only....they spoke of the Kingdom of God as a main part of the message.I am thinking we do not follow this pattern as much as we should, possibly because of wrong end time views.:thumbs:
     
    #37 Iconoclast, Nov 6, 2012
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    When i read the postmill writers I see a consistent desire to extend the Kingdom worldwide in fulfillment of psalm8/hebrews 2;

    Here is Ken Gentry-
     
    #38 Iconoclast, Nov 6, 2012
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    And again here:
    God is deeply i nterested in and committed to the physical world and the
    historical process:
    (1) He sovereignly and purposely created the objective, material
    world in which we live (Gen 1; Psa 33:6–11).
    (2) He lovingly and carefully
    formed our physical bodies for dwelling in this world (Gen 2:7–24), which he has
    entrusted to us (Psa 8:1–9; 115:16).
    (3) He created man in his image for the
    express purpose of subduing material creation as his high calling in history (Gen
    1:26–27).
    (4) He brought his objective, propositional revelation to us through the
    historical process of inspiration and inscripturation by means of men moved by
    the Spirit of God (2 Tim 3:16–17; 2 Pet 1:20–21).
    (5) In the Second Person of the
    Trinity, God took upon himself a true human body and soul (which he still possesses,
    Col 2:9) and entered history for the purpose of redeeming men and women
    back to a right relationship with him (Rom 1:3; 9:5; Heb 2:14).
    (6) His elect people
    will inherit the eternal estate in resurrected, physical bodies (John 5:28–29; 1 Cor
    15:20–28) so that we might dwell in a material new creation order(2 Pet 3:8–13).
     
    #39 Iconoclast, Nov 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2012
  20. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    HMMMM............can't QUITE do it....Even though I am in 95% agreement with them. They speak a lot about this being only the result of the personal result of God being the one who individually governs the lives of a regenerate person....but, from what I read....they seem to speak a little too much about "creedalism" for the church, and it frightens me. My own father-in-Law knows Rushdoony quite well as he was a major witness in some court-cases in Nebraska about Church-Schooling and what-not...
    My father-in-law was the associate pastor of the Baptist Church the State shut-down..........
    But, I am thinking I have to break just a tad from them here....and I REALLY only mean a "TAD".

    For one....this is obviously a "Reformed-Only" kind of group....
    and Second: They speak a little too much of creedalism to me

    Except for that...I agree with them completely...
    Somehow or another, this is also a "Dispensationalist vs. Pre-terist" thread....which I have no interest in discussing....except that it seems that the "Pre-terist" or at least "A-Millenial" side of the equation has a view about this which is inextricably related....

    Truth is...your "Theonomy and reconstruction guys"......would get a ton more traction if they weren't (seemingly) so indebted to their eschatology. I otherwise agree with them...that, and their tendency towards "creedalism"....Good questions though. :thumbs: :type: What do you say????
     
    #40 HeirofSalvation, Nov 9, 2012
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