KJB Defenders

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Psalm145 3, Feb 7, 2002.

  1. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3
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    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Here is a list of links to helpful web sites I have found that explain the truth of the Bible version issue. I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ would let His face shine on you and help you understand the truth about Bible versions and that the saints may be greatly edified for His glory.

    Way of Life's Electronic KJV Defense Library

    The King James Bible Page

    BibleBelievers.com - Bible Versions

    Bible Version Information Center

    The Dean Burgon Society - In Defense of Traditional Bible Texts

    Bible Believers Resource Page

    Serious Translational Errors in the NKJV

    The Bible - Jesus-is-Lord.com

    The New King James Version Counterfeit
    What's that mysterious symbol on the NKJV?

    New Age Bible Versions
     
  2. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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  3. TomVols

    TomVols
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    Also, see The King James Version Debate by D.A. Carson and The King James Only Controversy by James White
     
  4. Ransom

    Ransom
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    TomVols said:

    Also, see The King James Version Debate by D.A. Carson and The King James Only Controversy by James White

    And One Bible Only?, eds. Roy E. Beacham and Kevin T. Bauder (Kregel, 2001) for a more recent, specifically Fundamentalist response to this specifically Fundamentalist controversy.
     
  5. TomVols

    TomVols
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    Ransom,
    I knew there was a newer work out but couldn't remember it. I haven't read this one yet. I look forward to doing so.
     
  6. Ransom

    Ransom
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    TomVols said:

    Ransom,
    I knew there was a newer work out but couldn't remember it. I haven't read this one yet. I look forward to doing so.


    I was also vaguely aware of it (KJV-only materials don't typically penetrate the border into Canada unless, like White or Carson, they're carried by a major publisher), but was pleasantly surprised to find it one day in one of the local Christian bookstores (ironically, the Charismatic-friendly, Jesus-junk-loaded, "every wind of doctrine" one).

    It's quite good - a collection of essays on various relevant topics by the faculty of Central Baptist Theological Seminary. There's a FAQ in the appendix that I found especially good - better than the one in White's book, as good as that is.
     
  7. TomVols

    TomVols
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    Thanks Ransom. I'll definitely put it on my "Want List" and check it out.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Chet

    Chet
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    Psalm145 3,

    I would be willing to send you a copy of The King James Only Controversy by James
    White and One Bible Only?, eds. Roy E. Beacham and Kevin T. Bauder if you would
    read them. I just ask that you give these a chance. (Acts 17:11)

    I will also send you a taped copy of James White in a debate with D.A. Waite. I have read D.A. Waite's book and must say that this was a very interesting discussion. James White was exceptionally good in his answers to this issue. And there is a surprise guest who will show his true colors.

    I will also send a copy of a debate between James White and G.A. Riplinger. I would
    highly recommend you take a listen to this. It will expose the truth behind the so called
    "New Age Versions" and G.A. Riplinger.

    I also have a copy of him discussing this issue on "The Bible Answer Man Show" with
    Hank Hanegraaff as he interacts with live callers.

    For anyone who would want to listen to these debates you can listen to these debates and more, including a debate with Thomas Holland, concerning the deity of Christ in the MV's http://aomin.org/

    Unfortunately right now his audio server is down and has been for a few weeks. He says
    he is working on getting another set up. I will keep checking his homepage and let you
    know when it is back up.

    Psalms 145 3 if you are interested, and I pray you are, send me a private e-mail with your mailing address. [email protected]

    [ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: Chet ]
     
  9. Tim the Baptist

    Tim the Baptist
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    "It Looks Like We're not in Kansas anymore"
    as Grandpa once said, If it Ain't broke
    don't fix it, the kjb's reputation clearly
    makes it stand out from all others, it is
    clearly the most Hated Book of the Laodicean
    Church, their Scholars, Publishers, Preachers
    and Preacher-etts all push the other Versions
    it has become very Profitable for them to do
    so, The kjb is a Spiritual book and must be
    Spiritually Discerned to be Understood, see
    1 Cor. 2:10-16 kjv, Todays Laodicean Congreg-
    ation can no Longer Understand it, thus they
    must find one that gives them Comfort in their lack of Understanding, I couldn't Under
    stand it, Until I got Born Again, so I will
    stick with a proven Sword.
     
  10. Ransom

    Ransom
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    Tim the Baptist said:

    "It Looks Like We're not in Kansas anymore"

    I never was, actually.

    [the KJV] is clearly the most Hated Book of the Laodicean Church,

    Why would a church in Turkey be worried about an English Bible?

    Or are you referring to that fabled "Church age" that some people have inferred by allegorizing the third chapter of Revelation?

    Either way, who cares?

    their Scholars, Publishers, Preachers
    and Preacher-etts all push the other Versions
    it has become very Profitable for them to do
    so,


    I rather doubt my pastor is getting royalties from Zondervan. He's probably too busy preaching the Word to worry about picayune debates from the fringes of Fundamentalism.
     
  11. TomVols

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    Welcome to a fellow East Tennessean, but let's stick to the facts and avoid the ad-hominems. :cool:
     
  12. Tim the Baptist

    Tim the Baptist
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    :confused: Ouch.... Facts?????? ;) Facts will put you on the fringes of Fundamentalism
    and we wouldn't want to be Fundamental in our
    believe or doctrine, no way man, let me join
    the Baskin-Robbins Baptist Church, whats the
    flavor of the Month,lol lol lol, just kidding
    okay Ransom, Calm down, ;) I come in Peace,
    I'm sorry [​IMG] Forgive me, Please...... Okay
    TomVol, He's Canadian, Whats your excuse... :(
     
  13. Ransom

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    Tim the Baptist said:

    okay Ransom, Calm down, ;) I come in Peace, I'm sorry [​IMG]

    Hmmmm. Implicitly accusing pastors (and, by association, my own) and others of having ulterior commercial motives, lacking understanding, lacking spiritual discernment, and being effeminate, merely because their pew Bible isn't the same as yours, is a very funny way of "coming in peace."

    It's wild-eyed rhetoric of this kind that discredits KJV-onlyism almost as surely as its faulty arguments.

    [ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  14. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom:
    It's wild-eyed rhetoric of this kind that discredits KJV-onlyism almost as surely as its faulty arguments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    As well as one's Christian testimony. :(
     
  15. TomVols

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> we wouldn't want to be Fundamental in our
    believe or doctrine <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I prefer the OLD definition of fundamentals, not the new version that floats around many so called self proclaimed fundamentalists who bring insult to the very name.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Okay
    TomVol, He's Canadian, Whats your excuse <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey, I'm from East Tennessee...I don't need an excuse [​IMG]
     
  16. Scott J

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tim the Baptist:
    :confused: Ouch.... Facts?????? ;) Facts will put you on the fringes of Fundamentalism
    and we wouldn't want to be Fundamental in our
    believe or doctrine, no way man,
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No facts won't put you on the fringes of fundamentalism. But the lack of facts clearly puts KJVOnlyism outside of any legitimate definition of "fundamentalism."

    It is not a doctrine drawn from scripture. It is not a doctrine drawn from the Bible evidences. It is not a doctrine drawn from the history of fundamental Christianity.

    KJVOnlyism is a man-made, feeling-based, false doctrine that hinders the gospel. It originated within the last 100-150 years as a reaction in favor to tradition and against scholarship. It preys on people who fearfully and irrationally reject everything new or people who willfully reject the facts when they are shown to them.

    KJVO is not a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith but an unbiblical addition to it.
     
  17. DocCas

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    Scott, although I agree with your time frame for KJVOism, and the type of people it tends to attract, I believe its roots may not be as bad as you suggest. I believe KJVOism began with a very real concern for the demise of the Byzantine textform in favor of the Alexandrian textform, which many scholars of that day, as well as today, believe to be the superior textform and to best represent the autographa. I agree the discussion has been so warped by a very vocal minority that it is almost beyound recognition, but there is still a rational basis for the discussion. As a great old man (Arno Winiger) said at the FBF meeting in Denver in about 1989 or 1990, "Some people today are asking "which bible" and I believe that to be a legitimate question?" I agree with the gentleman in question. The issue of English versions is one that ought to be disucssed, but, in an orderly and rational way. [​IMG]
     
  18. Scott J

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
    I believe its roots may not be as bad as you suggest. I believe KJVOism began with a very real concern for the demise of the Byzantine textform in favor of the Alexandrian textform,...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have only seen two explainations for the origin of KJVO. The one widely presented that it originated with a 7th Day Adventist and the one you have forwarded concerning those of the 19th century who were referred to in a quote by advocates of the CT by a word a can't recall. Just from what I have seen, read, heard, and experienced, I would tend to believe that most of the horsepower from this movement was not provided by those favoring the BT or TR. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I agree the discussion has been so warped by a very vocal minority that it is almost beyound recognition, but there is still a rational basis for the discussion. As a great old man (Arno Winiger) said at the FBF meeting in Denver in about 1989 or 1990, "Some people today are asking "which bible" and I believe that to be a legitimate question?" I agree with the gentleman in question. The issue of English versions is one that ought to be disucssed, but, in an orderly and rational way. [​IMG]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with this. It is definitely a legitimate discussion but, when the issue is rationally discussed, most people tend to move away from the TR. I would personally like to see more weight given to the BT...move the CT closer to the MT so to speak.

    I really have no problem with your point of view...I don't completely agree but I do respect your convictions. My problem is with those who believe that God some how superintended the KJV or even the TR to make it the perfect equivalent to the originals. These groups usually feel complete justification in condemning all of us who do not agree with them...I think you are kind of on the fringe as far as they are concerned...you MIGHT be close enough to KJVO to make it into heaven

    ;) . They need someone to give them scholarly reasoning but would like to ignore you when you won't go all the way with them.
     
  19. Tim the Baptist

    Tim the Baptist
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    I never Realized that believing the a.v. as Gods word, Would cause such a Thunderation
    of Disdain, I am sorry that you have had a
    bad experience in the reading and or study of
    the a.v., I also ask forgivness in respect to
    my earlier offensive communication, sorry, I
    would like to study on your point of view, so
    to assimilate into the mainstream of religion
    and come out of the dark ages, I need your
    help, what version or versions should I use
    in my daily readings?, what books would you
    recommend I read to help Liberate me from
    fundamentalism? please help me break the bonds of oldtime Religion, I have always believed the a.v. as the word of God, if its
    not, then I need to change what I believe and
    Preach,Teach, so I to can be informed and Conformed to the Mainstream Baptist Thinking,
    Help! :confused:
     
  20. TomVols

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I never Realized that believing the a.v. as Gods word, Would cause such a Thunderation
    of Disdain <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Believing the KJV is a translation of God's Word is not the problem. I don't think Dr. Cassidy nor I would allow that. It's summarily dismissing other translations as being translations of God's Word (and using ad-hominems in the process) that will get the ire of other fundamentalists/conservatives on this board. :cool:
     

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