KJV text in Thompson's Chain Reference Bbile

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Logos1560, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    For many years I have had an edition of Thompson's Chain Reference Bible with 1964 as its last copyright [Fourth Improved Edition].

    This past week I obtained a copy of Thompson's Chain Reference Bible with 2007 as its last copyright [Fifth Improved Edition]. I compared the two editions, and here are some facts from that comparison.

    Genesis 4:22 instructer [1964 TCRB] instructor [2007 TCRB]
    Genesis 6:5 GOD [1964 TCRB] God [2007 TCRB]
    Genesis 15:13 their's [1964 TCRB] theirs [2007 TCRB]
    Genesis 30:37 chesnut [1964 TCRB] chestnut [2007 TCRB]
    Exodus 6:21 Zichri [1964 TCRB] Zithri [2007 TCRB]
    Exodus 34:23 Lord GOD [1964 TCRB] LORD GOD [2007 TCRB]
    Numbers 14:17 my Lord [1964 TCRB] my LORD [2007 TCRB]
    Deuteronomy 2:11 call them [1964 TCRB] called them [2007 TCRB]
    Deuteronomy 21:15 her's [1964 TCRB] hers [2007 TCRB]
    Deuteronomy 22:3 all lost thing [1964 TCRB] all lost things [2007 TCRB]
    Joshua 19:2 Beer-sheba, and Sheba [1964 TCRB] Beer-sheba, or Sheba [2007 TCRB]
    Joshua 24:11 And ye [1964 TCRB] And you [2007 TCRB]
    Judges 13:19 wonderously [1964 TCRB] wondrously [2007 TCRB]
    1 Samuel 2:13 priest's custom [1964 TCRB] priests' custom [2007 TCRB]
    1 Kings 6:15 cieling [1964 TCRB] ceiling [2007 TCRB]
    1 Kings 22:6 the LORD [1964 TCRB] the Lord [2007 TCRB]
    2 Chronicles 4:5 handbreadth [1964 TCRB] hand breadth [2007 TCRB]
    2 Chronicles 13:19 Ephrain [1964 TCRB] Ephraim [2007 TCRB]
    Ezra 6:4 expences [1964 TCRB] expenses [2007 TCRB]
    Job 10:6 enquirest [1964 TCRB] inquirest [2007 TCRB]
    Psalm 19:1 handywork [1964 TCRB] handiwork [2007 TCRB]
    Psalm 62:12 O Lord [1964 TCRB] O LORD [2007 TCRB]
    Psalm 71:18 greyheaded [1964 TCRB] grayheaded [2007 TCRB]
    Psalm 107:17 Fools [1964 TCRB] Fools, [2007 TCRB]
    Psalm 148:8 vapours [1964 TCRB] vapour [2007 TCRB]
    Proverbs 6:26 adulteress [1964 TCRB] adultress [2007 TCRB]
    Proverbs 13:21 repayed [1964 TCRB] repaid [2007 TCRB]
    Isaiah 44:34 LORD, thy redeemer [1964 TCRB] LORD, thy Redeemer [2007 TCRB]
    Isaiah 59:17 cloke [1964 TCRB] cloak [2007 TCRB]
    Jeremiah 30:24 until he have done [1964 TCRB] until he hath done [2007 TCRB]
    Daniel 6:23 exceeding glad [1964 TCRB] exceedingly glad [2007 TCRB]
    Joel 2:24 fats [1964 TCRB] vats [2007 TCRB]

    Matthew 3:10 ax [1964 TCRB] axe [2007 TCRB]
    Matthew 4:1 spirit [1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
    Matthew 26:39 farther [1964 TCRB] further [2007 TCRB]
    Mark 1:12 spirit [1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
    John 11:16 fellowdisciples [one word] [1964 TCRB] fellow disciples [two words] [2007 TCRB]
    Acts 7:4 Chaldaeans [1964 TCRB] Chaldeans [2007 TCRB]
    Acts 11:12 spirit [1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
    Acts 11:28 spirit [1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
    1 Corinthians 4:15 instructers [1964 TCRB] instructors [2007 TCRB]

    It was surprising to find that the 2007 edition of Thompson's Chain Reference Bible has the old printing error "Zithri" first introduced in the 1769 Oxford KJV at Exodus 6:21 and that remained in most Oxford and Cambridge editions over 100 years until the 1880's when it was corrected. An old printing error reappeared in a new 2007 KJV edition, and evidently KJV-only advocates are unaware of that fact.

    Exodus 6:21 [Zichri--1560 Geneva; Sichri--1602 Bishops] [printing error in 1769]
    Zithri (1769, 1784, 1787, 1788, 1791, 1792, 1795, 1795e, 1798, 1799, 1800, 1803, 1810, 1812, 1813, 1818, 1819, 1821, 1823, 1828, 1829, 1830, 1835, 1838, 1840, 1847, 1850, 1853, 1857, 1859, 1865, 1868, 1870, 1876, 1880 Oxford) [1778, 1790, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1824, 1833, 1837, 1842, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872 Cambridge] {1813, 1814, 1817, 1824, 1825, 1827, 1834, 1838, 1843, 1849, 1860, 1877 London} (1851 Edinburgh) (1785 Wilson) (1811 Hewlett) (1834 Coit) (1853 Butler) (1856 AFBS) (1859, 1868 RTS) (2007 TCRB)
    Zicri (1700 MP)
    Zichri (1679, 1709, 1720, 1728, 1746, 1747, 1753, 1754, 1755, 1762, 1765, 1768, 1770, 1772, 1773, 1778, 1783, 1804, 1885 Oxford, SRB) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1677, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1769, 1773, 1783, 1873, 1887 Cambridge, CCR, CSTE, DKJB] {1611, 1613, 1617, 1631, 1640, 1650, 1660, 1684, 1706, 1711, 1735, 1741, 1759, 1760, 1763, 1767, 1772, 1795, 1879 London} (1638, 1714, 1715, 1722, 1729, 1735, 1756, 1760, 1764, 1766, 1769, 1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1802, 1806, 1810, 1820, 1827, 1842, 1858 Edinburgh) (1866 Glasgow) (1762 Dublin) (1782 Aitken) (1790 MH) (1791 Collins) (1791 Thomas) (1802, 1813, 1815 Carey) (1809, 1810, 1826 Boston) (1815 Walpole) (1816 Albany) (1818 ABS)
     
  2. prophet

    prophet
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    All of that, to slam KJVO.

    Why don't you take up golf?
     
  3. Logos1560

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    I thought that KJV-only advocates claimed to stand for the truth or to be interested in the truth.

    If you are claiming that presenting true facts about KJV editions supposedly slams KJV-only, are you suggesting that KJV-only depends upon incorrect or inaccurate claims about KJV editions?
     
  4. Jordan Kurecki

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    Do you have anything better to do than try to attack the KJV?

    Why don't you put your time into promoting a bible rather than trying to destroy peoples faith in the KJV, you sit around trying to tear down the KJV, yet you don't point anyone to something you would consider better.

    Seriously, please take up golf.
     
  5. Salty

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    Which is more important - the KJV or Gods Word
     
  6. Logos1560

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    You failed to back up your accusation that I am supposedly attacking the KJV by presenting facts concerning KJV editions.

    You would think that KJV-only advocates would want to know of errors that have been introduced by men into KJV editions so that they could be corrected.

    Do KJV-only advocates desire to keep the truth hidden or do they imagine that the truth would be a serious problem for their modern, man-made KJV-only theory?

    Disagreeing with the opinions of men about the KJV and presenting the truth about the KJV does not harm the KJV for what it actually is. Presenting the facts concerning KJV editions would be defending the KJV against incorrect or inaccurate claims made by some.

    The KJV is a good overall English translation of the Scriptures in the same sense or in the same way that the pre-1611 English Bibles such as the Geneva Bible are and in the same sense that later English Bibles such as the NKJV are. Matthew's Bible, the Geneva Bible, the KJV, and the NKJV are English translations that I have recommended.
     
    #6 Logos1560, Apr 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2014
  7. Yeshua1

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    Were both editions based upon same teaxtual basis same texts/sources?

    And which would be the correct version then, if one held to KJVO?
     
  8. Jordan Kurecki

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    What is your purpose for the OP?

    How exactly does the OP edify those reading it and how does your purpose of this thread bring honor and glory to Christ?
     
  9. annsni

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    I see that you are upset about the OP posting this - but have no answer for the changes. Why is that?
     
  10. InTheLight

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    Answered here:
     
  11. Logos1560

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    Joshua 19:2

    Some may attempt to suggest that the variations and differences between present KJV editions only involve spelling and are insignificant.

    A difference at Joshua 19:2 that would conflict with what the Hebrew states at Joshua 19:6 and with what is stated in English ["thirteen cities"] would not be insignificant.

    If the cities are counted in Joshua 19:2-6, consistently using the "and" in the 1964 edition of Thompson's Chain Reference Bible and in a good number of other present KJV editions, it can be seen that it would be indicating that there are "fourteen cities", conflicting with Joshua 19:6.

    Joshua 19:2-6 in the KJV text of 1964 edition of Thomspon's Chain Reference Bible with the count listed in brackets before each separate city as indicated by each "and." Each "and" consistently indicates the name of a separate city.

    And they had in their inheritance [1] Beer-sheba, and [2] Sheba, and [3] Moladah,
    And [4] Hazar-shual, and [5] Balah, and [6] Azem,
    And [7] Elto-lad, and [8] Bethul, and [9] Hormah,
    And [10] Ziklag, and [11] Beth-mar-ca-both, and [12] Hazar-susah,
    And [13] Beth-leba-oth, and [14] Sharuhen; thirteen cities and their villages.

    Even KJV-only author Peter Ruckman indicated that this difference in Joshua 19:2 does affect the meaning when he observed that "some editions of the AV have printed 'Beer-sheba and Sheba,' bringing the count to fourteen cities, whereas the total was given as thirteen (19:6), and other editions have 'Beer-sheba or Sheba' in the same verse" (Problem Texts, p. 152).

    The KJV editions with "or" list correctly thirteen cities since "Beer-sheba, or Sheba" is indicated to be one city with two names instead of being two cities as indicated by the use of "and."

    Joshua 19:2 [Beer-sheba, & Sheba--1560 Geneva; Beer-sabe, Sabe--1602 Bishops]
    Beer-sheba, Sheba (1769, 1787, 1791, 1792, 1795e, 1798, 1799, 1800, 1803, 1808, 1810, 1812, 1813, 1819, 1821, 1823, 1828, 1830 Oxford) [1769, 1773, 1778, 1783, 1790, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1824, 1833 Cambridge] {1795, 1813, 1817, 1824, 1825, 1827 London} (1851 Edinburgh) (1791 Thomas) (1811 Hewlett) (1815 Walpole) (Clarke) (1834 Coit) (1836 Hartford) (1853 Butler) (1856 AFBS)
    Beer-sheba, Shebah {1814 London}
    Beer-shebah, Sheba (1760 Edinburgh)

    Beer-sheba, or Sheba (1968 Oxford, Oxford Classic, SSB, NPB) [1817, 1873, 1985, 2005, 2011 Cambridge, 1953 PM, CCR, CSTE, DKJB, 2011 PMR, Cameo, 2011 Transetto Text, 2011 Clarion] {1611, 1613, 1614, 1640, 1644, 1650, 1976 London} (1785 Wilson) (1816 Albany) (1816 Collins) (1818 Holbrook) (1823, 1827 Smith) (1828 MH) (1832 PSE) (1835 Towar) (1843 AFBS) (1851, 1853, 1855, 1858, 1868, 1894, 1902, 1954, 1957, 1963, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1984, 1988, 2008 ABS) (1854 Harding) (1924 Hertel) (1945, 1998 World) (1948 WSE) (1952 Judson) (1956, 1957, 1958, 1975, 1999 Collins) (1966 SC) (1968 Royal) (GPB) (1973 WAP) (1975, 1985 Open) (1975, 2008 GID) (CSB) (RRB) (WMCRB) (1984, 2008 AMG) (1987, 1988 IBS) (LASB) (RSB) (1990’s, 2010 LCBP) (ROASB) (1989, 1991, 2003 TN) (1983, 1984, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2010 ZOND) (LPB) (1996 Holman) (1997 NPC) (DSB) (TLPSB) (Life) (2003, 2011, 2012 Barbour) (2003 IGC) (TPB) (HPB) (2006 PENG) (VFC) (KJVCB) (SFCB) (2007 TCRB) (2008, 2010, 2011, 2011p HEND) (NHPB) (ASB) (2011 WB) (HMSB) (TBS-WT) (HKJVSB) (NCE) (2012 Biblica)

    Beer-sheba, and Sheba (1675, 1679, 1709, 1715, 1720, 1728, 1747, 1754, 1755, 1762, 1765, 1768, 1770, 1771, 1772, 1773, 1774, 1778, 1783, 1784, 1804, 1885, 1890, 1928 Oxford, 1952 PE, SRB) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1648, 1677, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1768, 1837, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872, 1887 Cambridge] {1616, 1617, 1631, 1634, 1660, 1672, 1684, 1705, 1706, 1711, 1735, 1741, 1747, 1750, 1759, 1760, 1763, 1764, 1767, 1772, 1838, 1849, 1860, 1877, 1879 London} (1755 Oxon) (1638, 1715, 1722, 1756, 1764, 1766, 1769, 1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1802, 1806, 1810, 1820, 1827, 1842, 1858 Edinburgh) (1860 Glasgow) (1762 Dublin) (1700 MP) (1746 Leipzig) (1774, 1777 Fortescu) (1776 Pasham) (1782 Aitken) (1791 Collins) (1801 Hopkins) (1802, 1813, 1815 Carey) (1803 Etheridge) (1807 Johnson) (1804, 1808 MH) (1809, 1810, 1818, 1826, 1828 Boston) (1810, 1832, 1835 Scott) (1818, 1819, 1827, 1829, 1843, 1854 ABS) (1831 Brown) (1832 Wilbur) (1836 Stebbing) (1843 Robinson) (1846 Portland) (1848 Hartford) (1859, 1868 RTS) (1876 Harding) (1876 Porter) (1895, 1958 NPC) (1897 ABU) (1905, 1989, 1991, 2004 World) (1910 Collins) (1911 TCE) (1923 NIB) (1940, 1979-1, 1979-2, 1998, 2010, 2013 Holman) (1942 UBBH) (1947 SP) (1958 Hertel) (1961, 1978 GID) (1964 TCRB) (1972, 1976, 1987, 2001 TN) (1973 REG) (1975 CBP) (1976 BH) (1976 OGH) (1987 Dugan) (1991 AMG) (KJRLB) (CB) (Nave’s) (Dake’s) (CHSB) (1991, 2012 FWP) (2005 ICC) (CNB) (MSB) (VB) (EB) (JVIPB) (2008 Pilot) (2010 Baker) (2010 BEAMS) (2010 BRO) (APB) (2011 AMP) (2011 PJB) (2012 F-S)
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Talk about an obsession. Geesh!
     
  13. Logos1560

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    How is it edifying to be questioning the motives or intentions of believers who seek to learn and present facts?

    Perhaps seeming attempts to attack the messenger presenting accurate information is a way to avoid dealing with the truth or to dodge facing the actual facts.
     
  14. Logos1560

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    so-called "Oxford" error at Jeremiah 34:16

    KJV-only author D. A. Waite maintained that “there are slight errors in the Oxford edition which do not conform either to the Hebrew and Greek or to the original Authorized Version of 1611” (Defending the KJB, p. 252). Waite wrote: “I have found at least 3 errors in the Oxford edition of the KJB” (Foes, p. 117). Waite wrote: "In Jeremiah 34:16 the Oxford University Press King James Version is wrong, false, and in error" (Foes of the KJB Refuted, p. 66). Concerning this same verse, KJV defender Thomas Holland wrote: "Although one cannot prove that this error is the fault of Dr. John Fell in his 1675 Oxford edition, we can state that considerable time had passed before the error was introduced, and that the error was limited to the editions published by Oxford or those based on the Oxford edition" (Crowned with Glory, p. 101). He also identified it as “a printing error found in some current editions” (p. 100). KJV-only author David Daniels wrote that the Oxford printers “mistakenly printed ’whom he’ instead of the correct ’whom ye’ (Answers, p. 127). Referring to Jeremiah 34:16 and 2 Chronicles 33:19, Daniels asserted: “There are actually two single mistakes that were introduced by printers at Oxford University Press over 60 years after the KJV was first printed” (Ibid.). KJV defender David Sorenson maintained that the Cambridge edition has the “correct translation” at this verse (Touch Not, p. 19).

    On the other hand, Scrivener pointed out that the rendering “whom he” was introduced into the KJV in the 1629 and 1638 Cambridge editions (Authorized Edition, p. 225). It is also found even earlier in one of the 1613 London editions of the KJV. Two of the KJV translators themselves were among the editors of the Cambridge editions that established this rendering “whom he”. At this verse, the later Oxford editions were following earlier Cambridge standard editions.

    The KJV text in both these editions of Thompson's Chain Reference Bible have "whom he" at Jeremiah 34:16.

    Jeremiah 34:16 [whom ye--1560 Geneva, 1568 & 1602 Bishops]
    whom ye (1968 Oxford, Oxford Classic, SSB, NPB) [1817, 1873, 1985, 2005, 2011 Cambridge, 1953 PM, CCR, CSTE, DKJB, 2011 PMR, 2011 Transetto Text, Cameo, 2011 Clarion] {1611, 1614, 1617, 1631, 1634, 1640, 1976 London} (1816 Albany) (1816 Collins) (1818 Holbrook) (1827 Smith) (1828 MH) (1832 PSE) (1835 Towar) (1843 AFBS) (1846 Portland) (1845, 1854 Harding) (1848 Hartford) (1952 Judson) (1956, 1957, 1958, 1975, 1999 Collins) (1966 SC) (1968 Royal) (1973 REG) (GPB) (1975 Open) (1976 OGH) (1976 TN) (1987, 1988 IBS) (1991, 2012 FWP) (1990’s, 2010 LCBP) (1983, 1984, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2010 ZOND) (DSB) (JVIPB) (LPB) (VFC) (2003, 2011 Barbour) (2003 IGC) (TPB) (HPB) (2006 PENG) (2008, 2010, 2011, 2011p HEND) (ROASB) (NHPB) (ASB) (2011 AMP) (TBS-WT) (2011 WB) (HKJVSB) (NCE) (2012 Biblica)

    whom he (1675, 1709, 1762, 1765, 1769 Oxford, 1952 PE, SRB) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1648, 1677, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1768, 1769, 1778, 1783, 1790, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1824, 1833, 1837, 1842, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872, 1887 Cambridge] {1613, 1616, 1644, 1660, 1672, 1684, 1706, 1711, 1735, 1741, 1747, 1750, 1759, 1760, 1763, 1764, 1767, 1772, 1795, 1813, 1817, 1824, 1825, 1827, 1838, 1860, 1877, 1879 London} (1755 Oxon) (1638, 1715, 1722, 1735, 1756, 1760, 1764, 1766, 1769, 1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1810, 1820, 1827, 1842, 1851, 1858 Edinburgh) (1860, 1866 Glasgow) (1762 Dublin) (1700 MP) (1746 Leipzig) (1774 Fortescu) (1776 Pasham) (1782 Aitken) (1790 MH) (1791 Collins) (1791 Thomas) (1801 Hopkins) (1802, 1813 Carey) (1803 Etheridge) (1804 Blomfield) (1807 Johnson) (1809, 1810, 1818, 1826, 1828 Boston) (1815 Walpole) (1818, 1819, 1827, 1829, 1843, 1851, 1853, 1854, 1855, 1858, 1894, 1902, 1954, 1963, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1984, 1988, 2008 ABS) (1831 Brown) (1832, 1835 Scott) (1836 Hartford) (1836 Stebbing) (1843 Robinson) (1856 AFBS) (1859 RTS) (1876 Harding) (1895, 1958, 1997 NPC) (1897 ABU) (1876 Porter) (1905, 1945, 1989, 1991, 1998, 2004 World) (1910 Collins) (1911 TCE) (1923 NIB) (1924, 1958 Hertel) (1940, 1979-1, 1979-2, 1996, 1998, 2010, 2013 Holman) (1942 UBBH) (1947 SP) (1948 WSE) (1961, 1975, 1978, 2008 GID) (1964, 2007 TCRB) (1972, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001, 2002, 2003 TN) (1973 WAP) (1975 CBP) (Nave’s) (1976 BH) (1985 Open) (1987 Dugan) (Dake’s) (CSB) (RRB) (WMCRB) (MSB) (LASB) (1984, 1991, 2008 AMG) (CHSB) (VB) (EB) (RSB) (Life) (KJVCB) (SFCB) (2005 ICC) (CNB) (2008 Pilot) (2010 Baker) (2010 BEAMS) (2010 BRO) (APB) (2011 PJB) (2012 F-S) (HMSB)
     
  15. Eliyahu

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    Logos 1560,

    All the time I have noticed you post the very much valuable articles though I disagreed with you sometimes. It must be a good help to many people.
    May God bless Logos1560!
     
  16. convicted1

    convicted1
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    I put bashing the KJV and KJVO in the same stupid group. If you don't like the KJV, by all means, DON'T BUY IT!!! I am NOT KJVO, seeing I have an NIV study bible, and ESV study bible, the Hebrew-Greek Interlinears by Jay Green, &c. However, I do 95%+ of my studying out of an KJV....
     
  17. prophet

    prophet
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    If was a fifth, we'd all be drunk, too.
     
  18. prophet

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    What's the difference? Isn't the KJV God's Word?

    I read Wycliffe, and Tyndale, too.
    Are they the Word of God?

    I don't understand your reasoning, here.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Think that he is asking if the word of God can be other than the Kjv version!
     
  20. Logos1560

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    The KJV is not the inspired Scriptures given by God to the prophets and apostles. The KJV is a translation of God's Word in the same way and in the same sense that other English translations are; therefore, it can have inaccurate renderings and even errors.

    Any errors introduced by men in copying, in printing, or in translating would not be God's Word.
     

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