KJV translation problem?

Context, context, context! It is as simple as that. We are so uppity about translating a word and are blinded by the light of context.

Cheers,

Jim

 

If you asked an Englishmen in 1611 what the sixth commandment was, he would most likely reply, "Thou shalt do no murder."

 

Book of Common Prayer. It's what was taught in the Catechism and repeated at every Holy Communion.

 

Roget’s II The New Thesaurus defines kill as “to take the life of (a person or persons) unlawfully = murder verb .”

 

The differences in "kill" and "murder" were the same as now in 1611, apparently.

Here's one of many verses from the KJV where "kill" does not mean "murder":

Genesis 37:31 And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood;

And what did JESUS have to say?

Matthew 19:18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

"Kill" meant to end the life of something, any living thing, while 'murder' meant to wrongfully end the life of another human, same as they do now. One cannot murder an animal, nor be murdered by one. "Slay" means to kill violently, & it may mean either murder or lawfully kill, such as in battle.

At any rate, the KJV woulda been better off to have said, "Thou shalt not MURDER".

 

There is another wrinkle to this.

There is the something in Hebrew call the Verb Stem:

Hebrew is a tri-literal word system (most words consist of a basic three letter root word).

Each word "stem" has either a different spelling and/or pronunciation.

The problem being that the Hebrew Stem is mostly determined by the vowel pointing system which came long after the inspired unpointed text.

When Hebrew was spoken in the days in which it was given the stem was know because of the pronunciation of the then spoken Hebrew langauge.

The Masoretes who tried to preserve the stem system gave their best guess (which was probably pretty good in most cases) on how to add the vowel points to the verbs.

So we really don't know for sure the stem of the word xcr RATZACH in Exodus 20 Hebrew although Strong's says QAL (the basic word stem "kill") apart from the context of the rest of the law which says "life for life" allowing the death penalty and protection from others bent on shedding innocent blood.

The Piel stem would be the form for murder as it is pointed in Psalm 94:6 however from the inspired unpointed text it can't be determined except for context (and then not always by context).


HankD

 

The sense of the word "kill" as found in the commandment is understood as unwarranted death by applied and intentional action as in to get gain or being an outright act of maliciousness.

Only perversion of the word could possibly lead to any misunderstanding of the word kill.

Our present rendering of "murder" does not completely give the full intent according to O.T. law due to the needless killing associated with malicious practices meant to accomplish nothing but destruction of life.

 

"KILL" is to take away the "breath of life".

"Murder" can be committed "WITHOUT" taking away the "breath of life".

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Jesus moved the law from a "physical practice", (don't literally commit adultery) into the "Spiritual realm", (if you look and lust, you've committed adultery)

The words have very different definitions interpreted "in context".

 

No matter howya tryta cut it, murder is still the wrongful taking of another person's life, while killing is the taking of the life of any living thing. David killed Goliath, but God didn't charge him with murder. David, with Joab, hatched a scheme to get Uriah killed by the Ammonites, and God charged David with murder this time. Why? Each death was in battle. But Dave was legitimately battling Goliath, while David had Uriah set up to be killed to cover up his adultery with Uriah's wife.

"Murder" is still a better rendering in Ex. 20:13.

 

Only in the present rendering of the word, not in the complete rendering and applicable understanding.

From my "vile mouth"

 

Nope, a murderer commits murder while an accomplice is also guitly as to kill some one though not actually responsible for the act.

David killed Uriah but it was the enemy that comitted the act. David violated "thou shalt not kill"/ he did NOT murder Uriah.

From my "vile mouth"

 

I'll not comment here on whether any human's mouth is vile (Well, maybe aside from a certain governor and his wife qho are in the news recently, but that is for another forum.), but from the 'mouth' of my Bibles, which I do not consider a "vile mouth," in any manner, whatsoever -

From what I've read in the Bible, It doesn't appear that the LORD was very impressed with David, in his actions regarding ol' 'Whats-her-name' and her husband Uriah, in any positive manner!

And the Bible does, in fact, call David a murderer, meaning David did murder Uriah!

Ed

P.S. I'll add here that I do not believer we know the actual given personal name of the one the Bible variously calls "the wife of Uriah," Bathsheba, and Bathshua, for the last two only mean she was a female descendant (daughter) of two individuals named Sheba (likely from Gen. 25:3), and Shua [Likely from Gen. 25:3 (or I Chron. 1:3) although there are more than one individual named "Shua" (or "Shuah"), in the Bible].