KJVO and Divine Authority

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Phillip, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. Phillip

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    I was watching one of the pastors introducing Gail Riplinger in his church on the website mentioned in another thread.

    I am beginning to notice that the big slogan of the KJVO crowd of today is that we, who do not believe in a 100% word-for-word accurate KJV1611 (yes, that's what he said, KJV1611) that we have no Divine Authority.

    I am personally getting very tired of this misrepresentation of the Bible translations by the KJVO crowd.

    I made a statement that I agreed with C4K that I feel the Byzantine text-form may be a little closer to the original than other text-forms. I have now had KJVo's tell me that I am beginning to see the light. Well 'SCUSE ME, but just because I may feel the Byzantine text-form to be a little closer to the originals, certainly does NOT and will NOT make me a KJVO in any shape or form. My preferred text-form is an opinion anyway, and not a "belief". I may very well be WRONG.

    Anyway, enough ranting on that, my major rant here is on the fact that we do not have any Divine Authority and pastors are actually preaching this from their pulpits and confusing people left and right.

    I wonder how many new Christians this will run away, confuse or how many churches will have to split over these new KJVo PASTORS, who invite G. Riplinger into their church to blast the Word-of-God while the preacher should be preaching the Word-of-God instead of her wasting everybody's time.

    What say you?
     
  2. av1611jim

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    No Divine Authority?

    Then by what authority do you do these things?
    Seems to me a certain sect asked that very question of Jesus at one time. And at another time He appealed to the authority given Him by His Father.

    So I ask a reasonable question. Where is your authority from and how can you prove it? I will not say you have NO authority, I just want to know WHAT you think it is.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  3. James_Newman

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    It isn't going to run away anyone who doesn't want to be under a divine authority. Stating that 'in my opinion I believe the bible might have sounded a lot like this in the original autographs' is not going to carry a whole lot of weight from the pulpit anyway. IMHO.
     
  4. Trotter

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    Phillip never claimed ANY authority, Jim. Or did you miss that?

    In Jeremiah's day many false prophets tried to put words in God's mouth by "prophesying" what the people wanted to hear. it didn't wash then, and it doesn't wash now.

    Why is KJVO so rampant? Hate, pure and simple. Don't believe it? Just listen when some hack "preacher" gets the crowd worked up. After a little bit of shouting and railing against the "corruption" and "perversion", it starts sounding like a taping of the Jerry Springer show. It is pretty much on the same level intellectually wise, as the "congregation" has become a mob.

    Many men climb behind a pulpit and claim "divine authority" are doing nothing more than the false prophets did back then. We call it lying today.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  5. HankD

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    This has been a well rehearsed shibboleth coming forth from the KJVO pope/popess from day one:
    "Who is your authority?".

    Well, we might ask it right back which we seem not to do: "and who is yours?" to which they must answer "King James" and quoting OT passage(s) concerning the authority of a king.

    Which also qualifies several other Bibles (if it were indeed a qualification) down through the ages including the Vulgate.

    The first irony of it is that these are Baptists who supposedly support the distinctive of the Separation of Church and State". King James being the official titular head (the Anglo-Catholic Pope) of the Church of England, a clear violation of Church and State.

    The second irony is that from King Henry the Eighth (founder of the Church of England) to and including King James saw some of the most violent persecution (imprisonment, beheadings, strangulations, burnings at the stake) of Baptists by the Church of England (kings and "bishops") in our history because of that very distinctive and our violations thereof along with the several attendant complaints concerning the "ecclesiology" of the "Authorized" Bible by Baptists as well as Puritans and Dissenters.

    The third irony is their doctrine and romish practices: Pado-baptism and the practice of the Celebration of the Eucharist (The Anglo Catholic version of the Roman catholic "sacrifice of the mass") which even now as then is still called the "mass" by the high-churchman of the Church of England.


    HankD
     
  6. robycop3

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    We're getting right back to the "Who or what is YOUR final authority?" thingy. The KJVOs are as wrong about this as they are all their other fables.

    Can'r speak for everyone, but MY FA on earth is God's word, in any form I can understand. That would be true of ant devout Baptist. AV 1611 Jim's is the KJV, while someone else's is the NIV, or perhaps the CEV. Manchester stated HIS is the Geneva Bible.

    All are God's word, understandable to the readers who choose them. God isn't limited to any one version, and He doesn't command us to be, so why should I be? Multiple versions for me is a tool with which the Holy Spirit gives me greater understanding of the Scriptures, while He may use only the KJV for Jim, Mr. Newman, etc.
     
  7. LRL71

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    The believer's final authority is the Word of God. The Word of God is represented in the faithful translations such as the KJV, NIV, ESV, NASB, NKJV, and a host of others which have been translated into the English language. Even my own translations from both the Hebrew and Greek texts are infallible, and as being faithful translations, such translations are the very Word of God. [​IMG]
     
  8. av1611jim

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    _________________________________________________

    That is probably the most reasonable post I have ever seen you post. Specifically, the last paragraph of your comments. IMO, of course! [​IMG]
    Anyway, thanks! And Amen. At least you allow for the Holy Spirit of God to do exactly what I have been saying all along. That He uses ONLY the KJV for me. As such, IT (The KJV) is my final authority. Peace Bro!

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  9. LRL71

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    ^^^

    av1611jim,

    The doctrine of 'illumination' is what you are referring to. One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the believer is where the Holy Spirit gives the believer an ability to respond to the Word of God in obedience to Him. We are able to 'listen' in obedience once the Word of God is understood by the believer. Since the KJV is the Word of God, and is likewise a faithful (although imperfect) translation, when a believer reads the KJV, he/she is able to respond to God in obedience by way of the Holy Spirit's guidance and illumination. [​IMG]
     
  10. 4His_glory

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    I'll give a harty amen to that LRL71! [​IMG]
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother LRL71 -- Preach it!

    Likewise, my HCSB = Holman Christian Standad
    Bible, can be used by the Holy Spirit for
    me in the same manner. I note then that
    people limit the Holy Spirit when they won't
    let the Holy Spirit minister to them through
    another translation.
     
  12. LRL71

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    ^^^

    Thanks, fella's! [​IMG]

    Again, the doctrine of illumination is important in this discussion as well. If the KJV-onlyists were correct (and, they are not!), then the Holy Spirit would be unable to use any other translation in order to lead the believer into truth.

    Likewise, as well as my statement reflected the trustworthiness of the KJV, other modern versions are likewise THE WORD OF GOD! Even my own translations from the Greek NT are infallible, and thus are trustworthy in that they represent the text faithfully, and thus are the Word of God in my language (English); if you are able to translate from the original languages, then your translations are likewise THE WORD OF GOD! Such faithful translations of His Word can God use for the building up of the believer, whereby the Holy Spirit leads the believer into truth, and which enables the believer unto obedience to God. [​IMG]
     
  13. gb93433

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    I was watching one of the pastors introducing Gail Riplinger in his church on the website mentioned in another thread.

    I am beginning to notice that the big slogan of the KJVO crowd of today is that we, who do not believe in a 100% word-for-word accurate KJV1611 (yes, that's what he said, KJV1611) that we have no Divine Authority.


    So what’s new, the Mormons have been bashing the Bible for years. What else would you expect from false teachers who don’t study and mix a little truth with error. Isn’t that what Satan does?

    I am personally getting very tired of this misrepresentation of the Bible translations by the KJVO crowd.

    Anyway, enough ranting on that, my major rant here is on the fact that we do not have any Divine Authority and pastors are actually preaching this from their pulpits and confusing people left and right.


    Just look at the church growth movement among a number of conventions and denominations. They preach only a sweet Jesus without God’s love of grace and judgment. They lead people to believe if they come forward at the end of a service and get Jesus they will be saved. Seldom if ever is the cost of following Christ and the costs involved are mentioned. Jesus wants our life not just our church attendance.

    I wonder how many new Christians this will run away, confuse or how many churches will have to split over these new KJVo PASTORS, who invite G. Riplinger into their church to blast the Word-of-God while the preacher should be preaching the Word-of-God instead of her wasting everybody's time.

    What say you?


    The places where I have lived their numbers are diminishing. They do serve a purpose. At least they keep the poison together and keep it from getting into other churches. However they serve no purpose in the kingdom other than they buffet believers and provide great laughing stock by non-believers. They can cause a lot of damage to others who don’t know the truth.
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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    I remember our anti-pentacostal,
    anti-carismatic cant:

    I shall not be, I shall not be moved!
    I shall not be, I shall not be moved!
    Just like a tree that's planted by the water
    I shall not be moved!
     
  15. Phillip

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    Ed, I take it that if you lived in Tulsa, you wouldn't join "Church On The Move". [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    My first response dissapeared into cyber-space.

    No, I wouldn't belong to Church On the Move (COM). BTW, isn't COM once of those
    "i won't tell you what denominations i am"
    churches? Isn't it one of those local churches
    that isn't local anymore AKA "denomination"?
    If they don't sing out of a hymnbook, i
    don't want to go. BTW, any hymnbook will
    do, i just want to look at the music, not
    look at JUST the words above my head.
     
  17. robycop3

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    back to the 'authority' thingy...

    There's a certain member who doesn't deem our company here worth keeping any more, who goes from board to board posting lengthy 'studies' which consist of nothing more than comparisons of versions with each other. He always works as if the KJV is the 'standard' and that any other version that reads differently is corrupt. If anyone disagrees with him, he chants, "You have no final authority". I DO disagree with him quite frequently, because while his comparisons are accurate, his ASSESSMENTS of them are almost always completely WRONG. Where's HIS authority to set such a standard? Methinks we ALL have the same standard-setter...GOD...and the same God who made diversity among peoples makes diversity of work for the different believers, and that often involves more than one BV. If some wish to use but one version, fine and dandy...till they try telling ME I'm wrong for either not using THEIR pet version exclusively or that I'm wrong for using more than one version. All that does is tell me those people have a lot to learn.
     
  18. robycop3

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    The KJVOs CANNOT produce any Divine authority to support their myth, BECAUSE GOD DIDN'T MAKE ANY, so they'll do their best to make that little fact go away.
     
  19. gb93433

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    &lt;veiled attack snipped&gt;

    [ March 02, 2005, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  20. gb93433

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    A woman preacher in the very same church that I am certain would not support a woman preacher. Anybody get the contradiction?

    Anyone who has pastored knows that many heresies in churches start with a woman. But these churches have opened the door to the woman preacher and heretic.

    Amazing isn't it?
     

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