KJVO and Pagan Easter.

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ben W, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quarternions of soldiers to keep him intending after EASTER to bring him forth to the people.

    Earlier versions of the King James Bible have the word Easter several times in the new testament. Assuming that the KJV is the only inspired word of God, why would God refer to a Pagan festival when the bible makes it clear exactly what He thinks of other Gods and their followers?
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is because of the Catholic influence on the KJV translators that this word is used.

    The correct word is Passover.
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The word "pasca" means Passover, not Easter. The word "Easter" in reference to the day had not even come into being yet.

    I don't have a Catholic Bible, but I'd be curious as to whether the NAB uses "passover" or "easter".
     
  4. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    102
    Acts 12:4, New American Bible:

     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    So much for the "Catholic influence" on the KJV as alleged earlier.
     
  6. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    I could be wrong (but I don't think I am), but I
    believe the KJV is the only one that uses the
    word, "Easter" for Passover. Someone some
    months ago said that this was because
    Christians in the time of King James used
    the word "Easter" when intending Passsover.
    I have checked this out and found absolutely no
    legitimate evidence for it. This idea, in my
    opinion was a mere rewriting of history in order
    to cover up for error.
     
  7. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not a rewriting of history, your timeframe is just a little late. The word "Easter" was used in earlier English translations of the Bible to refer to Passover. It was a simple matter of linguistic compromise, providing a familiar point of reference for people who knew what Easter was, but not the Hebrew pascha festival.

    It was William Tyndale who coined the word "Passover" in the 16th century. If I remember correctly he was happy enough to use "Easter" in the first edition of his New Testament. However, when it came time to translate the Old Testament, he realized that using "Easter" would create a glaring anachronism, so the coining of a new word was in order.

    Subsequently the use of the word "Easter" to refer to the Hebrew observance fell out of favour. The fact that it exists exactly once in the King James, to translate a word that is consistently translated "Passover" elsewhere, suggests that it is no more significant than a simple editorial "oops."
     
  8. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Odd that anyone would assume that people
    were so lacking in intelligence that they could not
    learn what a word representing an idea was, so
    they thought they had to represent it by a pagan
    word. This whole idea reeks. It is a slap in the
    face of ordinary intelligence and in the face of
    our God who ordained Pesach.
     
  9. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/cc2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2001
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    0
    The fact that it exists exactly once in the King James, to translate a word that is consistently translated "Passover" elsewhere, suggests that it is no more significant than a simple editorial "oops."

    But the KJV must be oops-free if 'KVJO' is a correct doctrine.
     
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not too worried about Ransom being KJVO.
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was William Tyndale who coined the word "Passover" in the 16th century.

    That's news to me. I believe English speaking Jews had used the word "Passover" for Pesach before Tyndale or the 1611 KJV.
     
  12. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to the entry for "Passover" at Merriam-Webster Online, it came into use in 1530 - which coincides with Tyndale's translation of the Pentateuch.

    IN another post, Abiyah said:

    It is a slap in the face of ordinary intelligence and in the face of our God who ordained Pesach.

    The English Bible first came to be in a time when most people could not read - including many priests. Moreover, most people had little idea what went on 20 miles from their own home, let alone halfway around the world in the Holy Land.

    Tyndale was the first not only to use the word "Passover" to refer to the pesach, but apparently also the first to use the word "Easter." (Earlier Bibles used some transliteration of the Greek pascha.) Remember that Tyndale was motivated by an indignation over the illiteracy of the clergy as well as a desire to make the Scriptures understandable even to ploughboys. They didn't understand pesach. They did get Easter.

    It was a justifiable paraphrase for Tyndale's purpose; having later coined the word "Passover" for his Old Testament, no doubt he would later have updated the New, had he lived that long.
     
  13. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Hebrew word pesach means “to pass over”, and would have been known to Enslish speaking Jews of Tyndale's time and prior.
     
  14. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    To even compare Pesach to Easter is
    absolutely ludicrous. Period. An idea
    based upon pure, unadulterated ignorance.
    The two are totally different concepts. Tthe
    first was an idea based upon Scritpure
    authorized by our God, and the second was
    a pagan holiday. This is like comparing
    a lion to an orange, just because someone is
    sitting in the zooo, eating an orange.
     
  15. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Hebrew word pesach means “to pass over”, and would have been known to Enslish speaking Jews of Tyndale's time and prior.

    The Jews were expelled from England by Edward I in 1290 and weren't allowed to return for 350 years. So they weren't around in Tyndale's time to explain to all the English-speaking Gentile ploughboys what the Hebrew word pesach meant.

    [ November 26, 2002, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  16. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Abiyah said:

    To even compare Pesach to Easter is
    absolutely ludicrous.


    Be that as it may, it was done. That is a brute fact of history.
     
  17. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    A brute fact of history, I can accept. What I
    cannnot accept is that people are still doing it
    all today and calling it righteous, because
    someone, way back in times of ignorance, did it,
    "so it must be right."
     
  18. Pastork

    Pastork
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree that the the term pascha in Acts 12:4 should be translated in English as "Passover." However, the Christian celebration centering upon that time had long been called Easter by the English, who knew that it was referring to the time also called Passover. A reading of Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People , written in the 7th century, demonstrates this fact. Thus I really don't mind if Christians still use the term 'Easter', so long as there is no pagan baggage brought along with it. Perhaps this was the mentality of the KJV translators. I personally think that when it comes to translating the Scriptures, however, the use of the term 'Easter' is inexcusable. Translations should be accurate and set a better example for Christians to follow in their use of language as well.

    Pastork

    [ November 26, 2002, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]
     
  19. Zebedee

    Zebedee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some folks may be intereseted to know that Tyndale also invented the word "atonement" for his translation.
     
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Easter was a legitimate translation of the Hebrew word Pesach (in 1611). Look it up in the OED. It's there.

    Today it isn't. Would NOT be appropriate in our 21st Century PC language. We do not confuse the two.

    Of course, neither would a modern version in English. :rolleyes:
     

Share This Page

Loading...