KJVO answer this.......

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, May 10, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip
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    I know this has been brought up before, but I would like to see a real answer from you KJVO types.

    So, if you guys (and gals) have such a problem with modern versions, do you honestly think someone can be "saved" when given scripture from a new version?

    I ask you this, Askjo, because you put up the links showing all sorts of evil things towards the NKJV including a 666 on the cover, etc. How can someone be saved from something that you feel is so evil?


    Do these verses seem to fit the context?
    Matt. 12
    22 ¶ Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
    23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
    24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
    25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
    27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
     
  2. Ken4JC

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    Phillip,
    I think people who seek God are saved by the grace of God alone. I do not think we must make tribute or pay for our salvation by chanting some text from the Bible or anything else. So are you implying that we are saved by reading some verse, or that a holy priest must show us the right word to say? I do not think that is what you mean or what you believe, and as a KJVO #4 I also do not believe this.
    :D
     
  3. Trotter

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    Amen, brother!

    No, Ken. Phillip is refering to the statement that has been made on occasion by a KJVOnly advocate that if someone was led to the Lord throught the use of a BV other than the KJV, then that person was never really saved. Which is hogwash, of course.

    People have been saved through the use of every bible translation that has ever been put to use (including the New World translation...but not by the JW's). And while I do not care for parapharses, or even dynamic equivalence for that matter, even these can serve as a Scriptural source for leading someone to the foot oft he cross. Because, after all, it is the Spirit's work, not ours.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  4. robycop3

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    Romans 10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Any version named here?
     
  5. tinytim

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    And if the KJVOs truly believe the KJV is the ONLY word of God, then it would be hypocritical to say someone can be led to the Lord by any other version.

    In someways I can respect the logic of those that are KJVO that say one must use the KJV to be saved. At least they follow their logic to a logical conclusion.
     
  6. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Even the most grossly corrupt "bible" contains enough of the word of God person to be saved..
     
  7. Ken4JC

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    So then as stated that is your offer of good logic. Using your given script that it is logical to think that if the ‘KJB is the Word of God’ and given to expect that one could come into some personal relation by only reading the KJB. If this is logic then the clear implication is that the inverse would be true also. Therefore logic of equals inversion would imply anyone reading the KJB would therefore ‘not’ be saved, or that we must go to a chosen pope or MV to be really saved and that we are not saved by grace but by making the right logical choice to follow from a logical work of our better than God human soul. This conclusion is in error from even the worst of the MV I have read and from the KJB. I would offer that the KJB tells me that we are called by the Holy Ghost to repentance and are elect by the Grace of God alone, finished by the finisher of our faith as new creations by the blood of Jesus Christ our only High Priest. Therefore you can dunk a sinner all day long and make him say long prayers in whatever version of the Bible you like. You will end up with a wet and confused sinner that will not be any better for your process and may even be in more trouble at the end of the day. I know that the KJB clearly teaches that salvation is by Grace. Now as for the book of the month view on this point I am not too sure. With the ‘Passion’ MV that I am sure will come out, this point will be soft enough to make a Roman Catholic sleep well at night. They might even have a St. Jude rosary ring or Stations of the Cross so that the Protestants can fully understand the deposit of faith and progress of the evolution of the soul to pure love thought and happy fuzzy white logic.
    :D
     
  8. Trotter

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    Ken, that made absolutely no sense.

    Faith comes by hearing. Hearing what? The word of God, be it through preaching, a tract, a television documentary, a movie, or a personal testimony.

    Without the word of God (in some form), we would have no knowledge of Jesus Christ. Oh, we'd know that there is a God, just by what He has created. But to know of Jesus, to actually believe that He is the Son of God, that He took our place, and that He rose from the grave, we must have the testimony of the word of God. Not just the King James, but any valid translation, be it the "book-of-the-month" or not.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  9. Trotter

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    Ken, subtlety is not your strong point, is it?
     
  10. Ken4JC

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    I think you are right; it comes from working in the streets. [​IMG] I know that the majority of the people do not even care, and the few that might only care enough to get the 'fire insurance' and the rest need a clear light to find the way. I pray and do what I am told; the rest is God’s to figure out. If I do not do what I am told by the Father, the Holy Ghost will cut me hard with the Holy Bible (it cut’s both ways). I have received many stripes from my loving Father, and bless God to the best of my soul I will keep moving forward into His will and pray if I do not that He will kick me hard. I like the Holy Ghost goose bump of inspiration and revelation at the top of the mountain, but lasting joy comes in the valley of darkness when the lamp of His Word in my heart guides each step. Or as the Shepard of my soul puts a lump on my backside to keep me in the good grass, it is nice to know even in pain that He cares for my soul.
     
  11. TC

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    Speaking of those that put down the NKJV because of the symbol it use to have, I was looking at Oxford Old Scofield yesterday. Guess what the hardcover binding had on it - the same symbol. I couldn't tell if it was anywhere on the inside (such as the title page) because it was sealed in plastic and I didn't want to open it. So, will all you that berate the NKJV for the symbol throw out your Oxford Old Scofields for having the symbol?
     
  12. Ken4JC

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    As much as I enjoy slamming on the NKJV for other reasons, the trinity symbol use on this book is a normal and widely accepted glyph for the identification of the Trinity of God. If you look at the mark you will see clearly that it is one made three unbroken, I know that the same mark is on the magick spell book of some note to TV watchers. I think the use of a Christian symbol is an attack against us not the other way around. I know that for many KJVO people there is an iconoclastic sub group, and at times it is far to easy to make a rash judgment based on faulty information. My reservations with the NKJV come in the introduction pages and content more than the cover. If you only got the Bible for the cover and never opened it, the version doses not really matter. If you stamped my KJB with an inverted cross and a pentagram on the cover, I would not like the cover art but the content would still be valid. :cool:
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    Amen, Ken, except remember it is not a KJB but rather a KJV. It is a version of the Bible, an English translation of God's Word.

    Just trying to keep modern revisionists from writing new definitions and getting folks confused. We have enough "alphabet soup" out there without adding to it!

    Dr. Bob, LVO
    Gloria Patri, et Filio, et spiritui Sancto:
    Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,
    Et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
     
  14. Phillip

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    The symbol is simply the trade-mark of the publisher. Check out the publisher of the NKJV that has the symbol (not all do) and I bet that the Oxford is printed by the very same publisher. It is a TRADE-MARK! :eek:
     
  15. tinytim

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    Ken you wrote, "I know that the KJB clearly teaches that salvation is by Grace. Now as for the book of the month view on this point I am not too sure. " Can you show me a MV that does not teach that salvation is by grace? All I have ever read teaches it. I have even taken a RCC version and witnessed to a RC and showed them in their own version that works is not involved.

    The reason I brought up what is the true word of God, is because i have debated some KJVOs that swears that unless someone hears the actual verses from a KJV then they have never heard the true word of God, and if that is the case, then they have never been saved. That is too extreme.
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    AMen on all you said, Brother Tinytim! [​IMG]
     
  17. robycop3

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    What amazes me, TT, is the fact that some KJVOs insist that salvation depends upon hearing & believing God's word only through the KJV, but yet argue fervently in favor of Psalm 12:7 being about preservation. This is a contradiction as there have been English versions for hundreds of years, no two being alike, and the KJV is unlike any version that preceded it. This leaves the KJVO in the position of either having to admit that the AV translators revised the Bible or the preservation doctrine is wrong.
     

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