KJVO? Ever heard of Geneva?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Stratiotes, Aug 3, 2004.

  1. Stratiotes

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  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    John 3v16

    For God so loued the worlde, that hee hath giuen his onely begotten Sonne, that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

    Same great message!

    I love my Geneva Bible. Why do men have to come along and tamper with the perfect Word of God?
     
  3. Stratiotes

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  4. DeclareHim

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    I also enjoy reading my Geneva Bible I dl it from e-sword.
     
  5. robycop3

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    Hmmm...Some people who insist Psalm 12:7 refers to God's WORD should see its rendering in the GB: "...thou shalt preserve HIM..."
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Correctly translated so that it is not confusing to myopic readers who just won't take a minute to understand what Ps 12 is talking about!
     
  7. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------

    Correctly translated so that it is not confusing to myopic readers who just won't take a minute to understand what Ps 12 is talking about!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    God obviously didn't think so, as he saw fit to correct it . Most of the saints also saw fit to reject that reading, as that is also evidenced.
    (John 10, 16).

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  8. natters

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    Yes, God corrected scripture when the KJV was produced. That which was pure and perfect was made purer and more perfect. The perfectly preserved word of God was made even more perfectly preserved. Preservation means change, things that are not broken need to be corrected, and God was in error until he corrected himself. I finally understand KJVonlyism.
     
  9. Pastor KevinR

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    That kinda sums it up. (I should know, I used to be a sect member)
     
  10. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by natters:
    Yes, God corrected scripture when the KJV was produced. That which was pure and perfect was made purer and more perfect. The perfectly preserved word of God was made even more perfectly preserved. Preservation means change, things that are not broken need to be corrected, and God was in error until he corrected himself. I finally understand KJVonlyism.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Do you believe God has providence over his words? and in all languages? Do you believe God guides and preserves HIS words in those prospective languages?

    If you do not, please give me the scripture references for your belief.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  11. natters

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    michelle said "Do you believe God has providence over his words? and in all languages? Do you believe God guides and preserves HIS words in those prospective languages?"

    Yes. But I do not believe he exercises his providence, guides and preserves in the manner that you require of him. And I am still willing to answer your questions even though you do not answer mine. [​IMG]
     
  12. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Yes. But I do not believe he exercises his providence, guides and preserves in the manner that you require of him. And I am still willing to answer your questions even though you do not answer mine.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Natters,

    I don't require anything of Him. I believe what he has said about them, and judge according to what HE has said concerning them. What is that standard we are to go by in this? By what manner do you believe he excercises his providence?

    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. natters

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    michelle said "I believe what he has said about them, and judge according to what HE has said concerning them."

    He said his word would be preserved. He didn't qualify that with details about any particular exclusive translation, let alone a preservation that is actually a correction (changing) of what it is supposed to be preserving. You added those requirements yourself, and judge by those additional requirements and not only by what God said.
     
  14. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    He said his word would be preserved. He didn't qualify that with details about any particular exclusive translation, let alone a preservation that is actually a correction (changing) of what it is supposed to be preserving. You added those requirements yourself, and judge by those additional requirements and not only by what God said.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Why would God not guide a translation concerning his words? Where does God say he wouldn't or can't? Scriptures tell us how important God's words are to us, every single one of them. Do you not see the danger you put yourself in with your belief? You have then, no standard to go by, except what the scholars and translators have said today. That would be fine, if we didn't see so many wrong things in comparison. Why can you not see this? Most people only have the English standard to go by. What was the English Bible before these mv,s? The KJB. This has been the Bible for English people for hundreds of years. Now, the mv's say different things, and omitt many truths within the scriptures from what we have always had, and from even what we have today.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle

    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  15. rsr

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    michelle said:

    "Most of the saints also saw fit to reject that reading, as that is also evidenced."

    What evidence?

    "That God will secure his chosen remnant to himself, how bad soever the times are (v. 7): Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. This intimates that, as long as the world stands, there will be a generation of proud and wicked men in it, more or less, who will threaten by their wretched arts to ruin religion, by wearing out the saints of the Most High, Dan. vii. 25. But let God alone to maintain his own interest and to preserve his own people. He will keep them from this generation ... "

    — Matthew Henry's Commentary

    "thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever; or "thou shalt preserve him" {p}; that is, everyone of the poor and needy, from the wicked generation of men in which they live, from being corrupted or intimidated by them; and who are described in the beginning of the psalm. Some take these words to be a prayer, "keep thou them, O Lord, and preserve them", &c. {q}; and so the following words may be thought to be a reason or argument enforcing the request."

    — John Gill's Commentary

    "David, deploring the wretched and forlorn condition of his people, and the utter overthrow of good order, beseeches God to afford them speedy relief. Then, in order to comfort both himself and all the godly, after having mentioned God's promise of assisting his people, he magnifies his faithfulness and constancy in performing his promises. From this he concludes, that at length God will deliver the godly, even when the world may be in a state of the greatest corruption."

    — Calvin's Commentary

    "To fall into the hands of an evil generation, so as to be baited by their cruelty, or polluted by their influence, is an evil to be dreaded beyond measure; but it is an evil foreseen and provided for in the text. In life many a saint has lived a hundred years before his age, as though he had darted his soul into the brighter future, and escaped the mists of the beclouded present: he has gone to his grave unreverenced and misunderstood, and lo! as generations come and go, upon a sudden the hero is unearthed, and lives in the admiration and love of the excellent of the earth; preserved for ever from the generation which stigmatised him as a sower of sedition, or burned him as a heretic. It should be our daily prayer that we may rise above our age as the mountain tops above the clouds, and may stand out as heaven pointing pinnacle high above the mists of ignorance and sin which roll around us. O Eternal Spirit, fulfil in us the faithful saying of this verse! Our faith believes those two assuring words, and cries, Thou shalt, thou shalt."

    — Spurgeon's Treasury of David

    "Thou, O Lord, shalt preserve us, and keep us from this generation to eternity" (ver. 7): here as needy and poor, there as wealthy and rich."

    — Augustin's Expositions on the Psalms

    As you can see, the interpretation is no johnny-come-lately. Unless you think Augustin is New Age.
     
  16. robycop3

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    Michelle:Why would God not guide a translation concerning his words? Where does God say he wouldn't or can't?

    YOU do, when you say only the KJV is His word in English.


    Scriptures tell us how important God's words are to us, every single one of them. Do you not see the danger you put yourself in with your belief?

    I see the ignoranse you put yourself into, with your KJVO stance, a stance which you lie about taking, but in reality, practice.

    If you're not KJVO, what other specific version(s) do you recommend?


    You have then, no standard to go by, except what the scholars and translators have said today. That would be fine, if we didn't see so many wrong things in comparison. Why can you not see this? Most people only have the English standard to go by. What was the English Bible before these mv,s? The KJB.

    What was the English standard Bible before the KJV? The Geneva Bible.


    This has been the Bible for English people for hundreds of years. Now, the mv's say different things, and omitt many truths within the scriptures from what we have always had, and from even what we have today.

    But you have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about! You do NOT know if one version has ADDED something or OMITTED it because you insist the Greek/Hebrew aren't important. You're just GUESSING, as every other KJVO does.

    Oops! Forgot, you said you're NOT KJVO. In that case, what other specific version(s) do you recommend?

    Failure to answer will prove you're a liar.
     
  17. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    But you have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about! You do NOT know if one version has ADDED something or OMITTED it because you insist the Greek/Hebrew aren't important. You're just GUESSING, as every other KJVO does.
    --------------------------------------------------


    robycop,

    I have eyes and can understand English. If scripture in the Bible is omitted, I can tell. If it is added. I can tell. If it is changed/altered, I can tell. I do not need to know the origional languages to see the difference.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  18. michelle

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    robycop,

    I appreciate all that you posted. However, the one thing that all of those commentaries did not mention even one time was HOW GOD would keep his faithful in safety. God has laid it out for us, even in the Psalm. David crys out for the Lord's help, then explains why, then God says he will protect them, and then He states why and HOW. God has laid it out very plainly, and this is not an isolated verse of scripture indicating the importance and perfectness and saftey of God's words for his people. In his words are his commandments, his judgements, his statutes, his precepts, his righteousness, his love, his mercy, his lovingkindness, his power, his prophecy, his eternal life, and ALL OF THEM ARE REVEALING JESUS CHRIST, who is the living Word of God.

    Psalm 12 is a promise of preservation of the Lord's pure words, for the faithful, to keep them in safety from the wicked. This is the understanding that the Lord has given me. I don't rely upon commentaries or opinions of men, but my teacher, who is the Holy Spirit of truth.
    (John 16, 17)

    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    Proclaiming an error over and over does not make it one iota (that's "iote" in the 1611 and "jot" in the KJV) closer to truth.

    Dr. Bob
    Rev 22:14-15 NASB "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying."
     
  20. Trotter

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    We've been asking you the same question regarding the translation of modern versions since you first appeared on this Board. And you still haven't answered us yet.

    Do you not see the danger you put yourself into? What if you are wrong, and are condemning God's words as wrong? Hmm?

    Actually, we have the Holy Spirit, and I do believe He supercedes 'scholars and translators' by a long shot.

    And who are you to point a finger? You are relying on the exact same thing, but yours are a few hundred years dead.

    Wrong in comparison? Nope, just different from your precious idol. And we can all see it.

    Yep, 'cause there are a whole bunch of translations available to us to judge with. And they are actually in modern English!

    Partially true. There was the Bishop's Bible, the Geneva, Tyndale's, etc, etc, etc. And all of them were the English Bible BEFORE the King James was even thought of!

    Only because King James made it illegal to have and/or use any other translation of the bible. The original pilgrims brought their Geneva Bibles with them, not the KJV.

    Every translation is different, Michelle.

    What is omitted from the KJV, and what was added by the TR/KJV?

    "what we have always had" = church traditions, not scripture.

    "what we have today" = what the KJVO claim as their 'measure', but not ours.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     

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