KJVO Pastor Friend Bends a Little

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by USN2Pulpit, Dec 25, 2003.

  1. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
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    Last night, a friend who is a pastor of an IFB church agreed that those people who I had led to the Lord (including a close relative) while explaining the Roman Road out of the NIV were indeed saved.

    His reason for being KJVO is that he sincerely believes in the superiority of the texts, but also because it's nice to have everyone in the church reading out of the same version during lessons and sermons. He does not discount the possibility that those who read other versions might also be godly people...just possibly a little misled.

    He joked with me, calling the NIV the "non-inspired version." I was not put off, because there is so much that we agree upon to dwell on our views of versions.
     
  2. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    wld he be offended if u'd returned the courtesy on the KJB?

    i dunno why, but i think it's not a bad thing to be a little jumpy over the inspiration of God's Word.
     
  3. gb93433

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    I wonder what some would say about a friend of mine who was saved using a NAS Bible who had been in Ethiopia for 26 years. He was there one year before communism. He continued to be there until about one year ago. He was responsible for so many coming to Christ when it was illegal to give out the gospel to anyone. He showed me a picture of him preaching in the midst of a large crowd while some from the government had small machine guns. Early in the time he was there he saw hundreds of farmers killed. He had bullets from some of the street wars come through his walls. But shortly before he left there is an entire group who are close servants of God. Many have become educated so they can serve in a capacity of furthering the gospel. So he comes back to a situation where he can hardly live. Many who supported him when he left 26 years ago have died. He has not been able to gain support from those who are poverty stricken he has discipled in Ethiopia. He lived and ate with the Ethiopians in poverty. Now he returns to the US and his family find the Christians to be not nealry as friendly as the Ethiopian Christians. We are battling over the KJV and they were battling over their life and spiritual darkness. Recently he told me that anytime he wanted to come to a schol they would shut the schol down and have an assembly just so he could give out the gospel.

    In Ethiopia they do not have a KJV Bible but rather one in their own language. And if I remember right they don't have Revelation in their Bibles.

    I wonder what some would think of Wycliffe Bible Translators. They give the people a Bible in their own language and win them to Christ. Often the people do not have a former Bible version to contend with.
     
  4. Keith M

    Keith M
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    What? Someone can be saved using a Bible that isn't the KJV? ;)
     
  5. HankD

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    Only God could do that [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  6. RaptureReady

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    Let me be the first King James Bible only child of God to say that I agree with the pastor. I also believe that a person can be saved using another version of the Bible, after all, a person can be saved by just reading the Gospel on a tract. The modern versions, as far as I know, do contain enough scripture for a person to believe in Jesus Christ. But, I don't believe that a person can grow maturily in the Lord without the complete word of God, the King James Bible.
     
  7. gb93433

    gb93433
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    The problem is that there is not a translation that does not lose some of the meaning. In the Hebrew it is very similar to English but even some is lost. But in the Greek NT compared to looking at an English Bible is much like walking into a dimly lit room comapared to one that is brightly lit.

    I assume you didn'tead my earlier posting about my friend who was a missionary during the time of communism in Ethiopia when it was illegal to share your faith and there were informers present in their Bible studies. So you say a man can't grow in Jesus without a KJV. My friend has discipled many who have now have discipled many others at a risk to both his own life and the life of others.

    I guess what you said would go counter to American commitment. An KJVO's that you are aware of that have that kind of commitment as those Ethiopians do? You see they couldn't read a KJV Bible. They didn't speak that language. I wonder what Jesus did with the KJV? Did his disciopes grow and give their lives for the gospel. I don't think Paul knew English either.

    From the Introduction to An Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament by George Ricker Berry, Ph.D.

    The Value of Hebrew and Greek to the Clergyman

    1. Without some knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, you cannot understand the critical commentaries of the Scripture, and a commentary that is not critical is of doubtful value.

    2. Without some knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, you cannot satisfy yourself . . as to the changes which you will find in the Revised Old and New Testament.

    3. Without some knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, you cannot appreciate the critical discussions relating to the Books of the Old and New Testament.

    4. Without some knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, you cannot be certain that in your sermon based on a Scripture text, you are presenting the correct teaching of that text.

    5. Without some knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, you cannot be an independent student or a reliable interpreter of the Word of God.

    6. As much knowledge of Hebrew can be secured in one year with the aid of an Interlinear Old Testament as can be gained of Latin in three years. Greek, though somewhat more difficult, may be readily acquired with the aid of an Interlinear New Testament/Lexicon.

    7. The Hebrew language has, in all, 7000 words, and of them 1000 are repeated over 25 times each in the Old Testament.

    8. Hebrew grammar has but one form of the Relative pronoun in all cases, numbers and genders; by three forms for the Demonstrative pronoun. The possible verbal forms are about 300 as compared with the 1200 found in Greek. It has practically no declension.

    9. Within ten years, the average man wastes more time in fruitless reading and indifferent talk, that would be used in acquiring a good working knowledge of Hebrew and Greek that in turn would impart to his teaching that quality of independence and of reliability which so greatly enhances one's power as a teacher.

    10. There is not one minister in ten who might not if he but would, find time and opportunity for such study of Hebrew and Greek as would enable him to make a thoroughly practical use of it in his work as a Bible-preacher and Bible-teacher.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Remember, there are six levels of KJVonly. Your pastor friend has just stepped back from the most extreme (must use KJV to be saved) position but is probably still firmly entrenched in 1-5+.

    And also remember that he is probably in danger of condemnation from others holding that #6 position. I find that the peer pressure of these folks is more intense than I have seen.

    (Keep up the good spirit and dialog. You may save a person from error as a result!)
     
  9. HankD

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    Dear gb93433

    Thank you for that. Might I add something (as someone who has had formal education in biblical languages):

    Anyone who has sacrificed the time to acquire the knowledge in Information Technology necessary to post here on the BB won't have any problem (other than the sacrifice of time and self-discipline) with acquiring skill in Greek and Hebrew.

    How many time have we heard "I'm just a simple country preacher" or words to that effect yet they are obviously highly skilled enough in the sciences of this world to boot and start their computer, connect through a modem or provider, use an editor, fonts, symbols icons, etc, etc.

    Sermon over [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Don't forget that hyper-Fundamentalists
    often eschew education/intellegence
    as well as being deep KJVOs.
    In fact, i'm sure it is the distain
    of education that drives the KJVOism.
    You don't have to be a rocket scientist
    (or a hi school grand for that matter)
    to live with using the King James
    Version only (KJVO).

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv
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    You know what they say: if the eschew fits... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    :confused:
    Isn't it perplexing that you would label yourself as "King James Only" as a prefix to "child of God." That is rather disturbing.

    As for your last sentence, you have never given any justification for such an egregious assertion, especially given the fact that you are using the 1769 Revision.
     
  13. skanwmatos

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    Why? Are you implying that a KJVO cannot be a child of God?
    What's your point? Are you implying the KJV edition of 1769 is not a KJV? The person did not say "KJV 1611" so it seems to me your are just being picky. Why not deal with the substance of the post instead of inventing distinctions which seem to exist only in your own mind? [​IMG]
     
  14. skanwmatos

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    What do you believe to be missing from the modern versions that would keep a child of God from reaching spiritual maturity?
     
  15. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    Actually I didn't imply that at all. As a matter of fact, I did not question his salvation in any way, shape, or form. Why would someone deem it crucial to identify themselves in such a manner? Additionally, what would be the difference in a KJV Child of God versus a 1599 Geneva Bible Child of God? Furthermore, what Scriptural Basis is behind the differentiation?

    Actually, yes: that is exactly what I am implying. My Authorised Version was translated in 1611, during the reign of King James by his authorization. The 1769 Revision was done over a century and a half later. Do the math.

    Read my post again (noting the first sentence). I did precisely that.
     
  16. Askjo

    Askjo
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    If a Christian uses a modern version, how mature is he? Modern versions can expand your brian -- big understanding the perverting word of God! What about the conscience? Some Christians have absolute lousy testimony during using their modern versions because of the conscience that they lacked and negated.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    Askjo, that is not a wise direction to go. I can show you some of the most immoral and immature PASTORS who are KJVonly.

    But who wants to play that game?

    Using the KJV1769 revision shows "0" more or less maturity than using the AV1611 or using the ASV 1901 or NKJV 1982.

    Move on to more substance in the debate.
     
  18. Askjo

    Askjo
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    I do not talk about these pastors. I talk about these Christians in the nation. I viewed them in some states where I went to visit.

    Higher percent shows that most Christians are not interested in what they practiced what the Bible said.

    To understand the differences concerning Christians:

    1. immature (babes in Christ) Christians

    2. mature (strong Christians) Christians

    3. carnal (worldly Christians) Christians

    4. sinning (Sinful Christians) Christians

    Most Christians lacked number 2 because they are number 1 and 3.
     
  19. gb93433

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    You described me perfectly at one time.. My parents had my same attitude. I was one of those “country boys” you described. I was ignorant and didn’t know it. After all I was the top math and science student in my high school of about 1000. I was set. I had decided that I wanted to major in Physics in college. But I didn’t know how ignorant I really was. Near the end of my junior year I took some tests and they revealed that I should be getting D’s in English. It predicted that I would not do very well in college. I was shocked! I was humbled some, but not encouraged. I thought the tests must have been wrong. The counselor called me into his office to talk with me. I felt as though I wanted to go to college and felt doomed at the same time. I was embarrassed too. I thought to myself “I am better than that.”

    My grammar was poor and so were my English skills. Near the end of my junior year in high school my English teacher asked me what I was taking for my senior year. I told her and she told me I needed to learn to read. I was shocked! Read! I had won several spelling bees when I was younger. I was convinced she was wrong, until... She asked for me out of one of my classes and took me down to the reading lab. At the reading lab I saw other good students I knew. The teacher of the class had me read some sentences on a film strip. It was then that I realized how poorly I read and how much I could improve. That was one of the best things that happened to me. By the end of that class I was reading about 2000 words per minute. After that class ended I began to read much more. A few years later I joined a bok club and bought a lot of books. To this day I spend about 3000 dollars each year on books and given many away. I graduated from college and went on to seminary. What that teacher did for me was something I could not thank her enough for. It took someone bold enough to care for me and to tell me the truth to get my attention. I hated English but she encouraged me enough to trust her.

    Later I went on to graduate from college and seminary with biblical languages.. All because one teacher cared enough to confront me and encourage me.

    I am convinced that God is not so interested in where we have been but where we are going. He cares enough to give us what is His best if we will only let Him.
     
  20. HankD

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    Dear gb93433,

    That is a remarkable testimonial!

    And yes, the best thing we can do in this life is let God be God and lead us.
    What you said at the end of your post brought this well known Scripture to my mind.

    Proverb 3
    5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
    7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

    HankD
     

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