KJVO - Who actually wins? (Or: What is the real competition)

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by David A Bayliss, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. David A Bayliss

    David A Bayliss
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    I have an off-the-wall question for y'all. With the vast amount of energy that many God fearing true believers expend upon getting exactly the correct bible version do we actually increase the use of God's word or decrease it?

    Put another way: when the average believer gets home from work and settles down to his evening fare is the decision he makes actually between NIV & KJV or is it between the 'bible' and TV?

    I'm not trying to get into a TV issue. And I have entered into the KJVO discussion many times myself (and personally I am very heavily KJV). I just wonder if we are asking the right question.

    The last two churches I have turned up in were about 50-50 NIV(/other) vs KJV. I (pretty much accidentally) focussed purely about getting people into 'the Word', wondering what the words meant, wanting to know exactly what God was saying. And of their own volition (with me answering questions when asked) the vast majority have moved over to the KJV.

    I guess I'm really saying: isn't there a danger that the heavyweights fight it out over 2% of the pie when the remaining 98% is there for the taking?

    Yours in Christ

    David A Bayliss
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    We have a number of good English translations represented in our congregation. KJV would be 5% max.

    Our battle IS to get folks into the Word and help them understand what God is saying. The enemy is NOT a "version" or "translation", it is inertia, worldliness and ignorance of the language.

    We have met the enemy, David, and they is us! :eek:
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv
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    If KJVO vs nonKJVO arguements in any way discourage someone from picking up the good book, then it's everyone loses all the way around.
     
  4. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
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    Good point John.

    My church only used K.J.V. and they explained why. They were good points. But when I first was saved I started out with the Living Bible, and it was a joy to read, whereas the K.J.V. at the time was a little too dry and difficult for me. I wouldn't have read it at all at that time...if that were the only choice.
     
  5. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
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    I personally use a parallel Bible. (both in print and on my pc) It contains the NASB, KJV, Aamplified, and NIV. I have been using it for at least 6 years and have found that the message is the same in all versions. My inlaws, however and the church they attend is KJVO. I have avioded the discussion with their pastor, but they are emphatic about it, saying that the MVs have scripture removed.

    Oh well I will study and use all of the above versions and endevor to learn as much about the origional languages as I can.
     
  6. Ben W

    Ben W
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    The problem is the discrimination shown to people who choose not to be KJVO. No one has any problem with somebody using a KJV bible. It is a good translation. Unfortunatley there are various KJVO groups who do not show the same courtesy to any one who wants to use another translation.

    Ultimatley the Whole KJVO debate detracts from the kingdom of God, resultingly it is a very effective tool of satan.
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    Ben,
    Could you list four or five of these groups so that we can know who you're referring to?
     
  8. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Ben,
    Could you list four or five of these groups so that we can know who you're referring to?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Pensacola Christian College, Hyles-Anderson influenced churches, Ruckman's followers, and any group that defines or implies that Bible-believing is equivalent to KJVOnlyism. Type in the term Bible believing and you will find their web sites.

    I could name several churches whose members and pastors who are guilty of trying to intimidate non-KJVO's but I don't believe this forum is appropriate for that.
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    Incorrect

    Strike two

    Possibly

    I have been in dozens of IFB Churches. I have seen only one that would even remotely fit this description.

    Could you refer me to some websites of churches that list in their Statement of Faith "Bible believing is equivalent to KJVOnlyism?"

    Send me the names of these "several" churches via PM. I would like to verify if you really know what you're talking about.
     
  10. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Bob,

    PCC, HAC, Ruckman, and others have very clearly questioned the status of those who use something other than the KJV. This is well documented. I have from PCC (the most reasonable of the three, if such can be said) two videos at my house that are an abominable attempt to blast anyway who doesn't use the KJV as believing in correcting the Bible, using modernism, and the like. This should be repudiated by all.
     
  11. David A Bayliss

    David A Bayliss
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    Isn't the real issue in the defintion of 'discrimination'. I personally don't know of any group that would refuse food or shelter to a believer because of his KJVO stance and I don't know of many that would automatically call salvation into question. However there definately are groups that consider the KJVOnly stance to be a qualification to teach.
    Check out :-
    http://www.brothermike.com
    the 'brother Minton' controversy. Basically this guy was kicked out of a seminary because of his KJV position.

    Ben,
    Could you list four or five of these groups so that we can know who you're referring to?
    </font>[/QUOTE]
     
  12. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Incorrect</font>[/QUOTE] Check your info Pastor Bob. PCC broke fellowhip with BJU over KJVOnlyism even though BJU has a clear declaration making the KJV their official version.

    Strike two</font>[/QUOTE] I know this from personal experience. A child from one church informed one of my kids that he couldn't be saved without a "King James Bible". I know for a fact this is what the pastor teaches. Another pastor stated from the pulpit that the KJV is superior to the original language texts.



    I have been in dozens of IFB Churches. I have seen only one that would even remotely fit this description.

    Could you refer me to some websites of churches that list in their Statement of Faith "Bible believing is equivalent to KJVOnlyism?" </font>[/QUOTE]
    Here's a whole list thus defined:

    http://www.biblebelievers.com/churches/
     
  13. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    Pastor Larry & Scott J,

    Are you saying that every product of PCC and HAC are hard core KJVO's? I have personal friends pastoring now who are HAC graduates that will take exception to that assertion. As you know Pastor Larry, I attended HAC.

    I can't name 5 churches pastored by PCC grads, so I can only offer the effect of PCC grads as lay people. Most are strong KJV but would not "discriminate" on the basis of version. The videos you mention merely indicate the college's preference. There is no proof that, once in the field, the products of these schools will adhere 100% to the philosophies they learned in college.

    In any group you are going tom have extremists. It is very naïve to lump everyone in a broad catagory because of an isolated incident here and there.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Clearly, every graduate does not carry on that teaching. With PCC, this issue is only about six years old. I have a PCC grad in my church who carries an NIV and laughs about the state of PCC on this issue. I give him a hard time about it.

    HOwever, there are many who are taught these things and then carry them on becuase they do not know any better. In recent years, as PCC has tried to make some hay from this issue, their students have gotten an increasingly large dose of it. As for the vast majority of PCC and HAC grads, I do not know. I do know for some that it has been a big issue.
     
  15. Pastor_Bob

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    Here's a whole list thus defined:

    http://www.biblebelievers.com/churches/
    </font>[/QUOTE]On this website they have a "How to be Saved" page. It does not mention the KJV anywhere on that page. It would seem to me if these churches were KJVO extremists, they would demand using the KJV in their soulwinng efforts.

    In their doctrinal statement:
    Where does it mention discriminating against those who do not use the KJV? In fact, they even admit that it was the originals that were inspired and the KJV that is the preserved Word of God. I don't see anything that I would disagree with here.

    Again, no mention of the KJV as a requirement of salvation. If they were hard-core KJVO's, I would think they would add, "As given to us by God in the AV 1611."
     
  16. Pastor_Bob

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    I will agree with this. I will not agree with a blanket statement that assumes to know what each and every church related to this institutions does or does not do.
     
  17. Scott J

    Scott J
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    No. That is not what I am saying at all. I know that not to be true.

    PCC officially and publicly broke fellowship with BJU over the issue. Is this not discrimination? That is the schools position- individuals may believe differently but that wasn't my example.
    I wish it were an isolated incident here or there but in my experience it has been a pattern of behaviour for KJVO's to judge others' spirituality and even salvation by their KJV position.

    There are obviously extremes but it is noteworthy that the most extreme KJVO's are also the most vocal and the ones most likely to act on the belief. KJV-preferred or even moderate KJVO's almost never make an issue of it.
     
  18. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Where does it mention discriminating against those who do not use the KJV?</font>[/QUOTE] Judging by this statement, are Pastor Larry and I Bible believers? Definitions are not only inclusive but also exclusive.
    Please read it again. It does not say the preserved Word of God. It says that the AV preserves the "words of God". This is an absolutely critical distinction if their intent is to limit "Bible believers" to KJVO's.

    [ January 16, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Scott J ]
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    Neither would I, but that was not my point. Perhaps I miscommunicated. My point was about the stated position of the schools/individuals involved and the position that many of their graduates take. I would not include all in this.
     
  20. RaptureReady

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    Ben,
    Could you list four or five of these groups so that we can know who you're referring to?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Pensacola Christian College, Hyles-Anderson influenced churches, Ruckman's followers, and any group that defines or implies that Bible-believing is equivalent to KJVOnlyism. Type in the term Bible believing and you will find their web sites.

    I could name several churches whose members and pastors who are guilty of trying to intimidate non-KJVO's but I don't believe this forum is appropriate for that.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Here is PCC's "Article of Faith." If you don't like it, go to another school.

    http://www.pcci.edu/GeneralInfo/GenInfoArticlesOfFaith.html

    P.S. What is your definition of a KJVO?
     

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