Knowing that you have sinned vs. knowing you're a sinner....

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    There is a difference between those 2 things.
    My question is in order to become saved do you have to know that you're a sinner? I mean this is a huge revelation. Or is it enough when you know you have sinned? Because I cannot remember wether when I repented more than 4 years ago I knew that I was a sinner. I definitely knew that I'm not a "good person" and that I have done many wrongs things but what if I didn't have this huge revelation of being a sinner? Does this mean that I'm not even saved!? EEK!
    Somehow everything is so complicated. I heard a pastor speak about this he said some christians know in their mind that they have sinned but not in their heart. How shall I know wether I know it in my heart? I mean by now I know what being a sinner means because I have a conscience for this and my senses are sharper. I notice when I have a sinful thought and all that. These are things which I wouldn't even have noticed before cause I had no conscience for this. You don't notice something you don't know. But I don't know if this is only intellectual knowledge or not. Somehow there are christians which make everything so complicated that in the end you become totally confused like me and start asking yourself wether you're even saved. :(

    And what also scares me is that I talked about God with my grandmother a while ago. I had asked her before wether she believes in Jesus, she said yes. But I wanted to make sure she really had given her life to Jesus. So I decided to ask her. It took a lot of courage to do this. It wasn't easy for me at all. So I asked her wether she knows what being born again means. She didn't. I explained it to her. She said nobody had ever explained this to her. I mean she's 90 years old. People in her time were more likely to believe in God than people in our time. She also went to church in her past and all that but most likely she had never given her life to Jesus the way we do. So I asked her wether she wanted to do this and she said yes. She was really interested in it. I had a Chick tract and I had her repeat the prayer from this tract. But then the shocking thing happened!! It was like a nightmare.
    During the prayer when it came to confessing that you're a sinner she said that she doesn't know what being a sinner means!!
    I explained to her that everybody has sinned. I told her a few examples of sins. Lying, being angry etc. And she agreed with me. I mean she could not deny that she had never told a lie. But I don't know if she really got it. I mean what if the holy spirit did not really convict her? What if she didn't get that she is a sinner? Somehow she also had this thinking that you have to be a good person to get to heaven. Most likely she had this thinking all her life and of course I cannot overwrite this in a few minutes. Maybe her mind was too set and also too unflexible especially at her age to understand all these things. I explained it as good as I can, maybe I should have used bible verses which I did not. I didn't think of this. :(
    But this whole thing really scares me. I was so relieved after she had prayed the prayer but now I am thinking about it and ask myself wether it really worked. What shall I do now? This is very depressing. I am scared of talking to her again about this. What if I talk to her again about this and realize that she didn't understand anything? This would be a real nightmare. Does getting saved or not depend on how well you understand the gospel? What if she didn't really get it? I explained it as good as I could but what if she still has this thinking that you have to be a good person to become saved? :(
    Doesn't God look at the heart? Or does knowledge and understanding count?
     
  2. arkie pastor

    arkie pastor
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    XdiscipleX.....All I can give you is God's word that tells us to plant the seeds, and He gives the increase.....All any of us can do is plant the Gosple seed and pray pray, pray that the Holy Spirit uses it to convict hearts and saves the soul.
     
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    But the whole conviction thing is confusing.
    I mean when there's an altar call for example and people come forth to become saved then how is the pastor supposed to know which people have the conviction and which not? Is it possible that somebody wants to become saved and wants to accept Jesus but it doesn't work cause he doesn't have the conviction?
    Ray Comfort for example uses this "ever told a lie?" stuff to convict people that they have sinned. But even if a person agrees with this and realizes that she has sinned is this enough to become saved? Or do you also have to know you're a sinner? Why does everything have to be so complicated?
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    1. Only you and God know for sure if it was real. The Bible does tell us, however, that we can see signs of God working in our lives. It is called the fruits of the Spirit.

    2. No. It is not possible for a person to want to become saved and to want to accept Jesus and to not have conviction. It is only through the power of God that a natural man who is dead in his sin is regenerated and convicted of sin, and transformed by the renewing of his mind. What God begins, he will complete it and it will be effective and not return void.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
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    xdisciplex,
    You do not have to "be good" in order to be saved. Realizing that you have sinned and need the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ IS salvation.

    A person is saved when that person believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God - that He is God made manifest in the flesh and that He is our Savior from sin.


    Recognizing that you are a sinner is the Holy Spirit's conviction as you begin to understand the Holiness of God and why salvation through Jesus Christ is the only way that we can be right before God.

    Jesus said that sin is birthed in the heart. For the heart to be changed and transformed to not want to sin is when you are saved and the Holy Spirit begins to convict you of sin. Then you choose not to sin because in your heart you know that it's wrong and you begin to be sorry for all the things you have done wrong in the past. This is a process that new believers go through.

    I had been a member in the church my whole life, but I did not know God or trust in Him. When I gave God my life and accepting the salvation of Jesus in my heart about 10 years ago, the Holy Spirit began to convict me of things I had done in the past. It's not that Jesus did not forgive me of that stuff when I believed on Him, it's that I wanted to confess it, realize that is was wrong and choose to not do those things again - praying that God would help me choose to do right - that is called repentance.

    Tell me what you are thinking [​IMG]
     
  6. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Hi!

    I ask myself if the holy spirit has to convict us then why do pastors even preach? I mean what if you for example convince a person intellectually that she is a sinner? If this isn't enough but if the holy spirit has to do the conviction then why do people even preach?
    This makes everything so much more complicated than I thought. What shall I do now? Does this mean that my grandmother cannot be saved? This upsets me! If it didn't work then why didn't it work? Why? Shouldn't God be wanting to save everybody who wants to be saved? She wanted to accept Jesus. Oh man I don't understand this. :(
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Preachers preach because they are commanded to in the Word of God. As to convincing a person intellectually:

    1 Corinthians 2

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    God does save everyone who wants to be saved.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
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    we tell people about Jesus and the need for His salvation, because that's how God planned it. As Paul said in Rom 10 - how will they know unless they have heard?

    God will use us to share the gospel and it is up to the Holy Spirit to convict that person of sin. It has to do with judgment also. If a person goes before God and did not accept Jesus as Savior after someone shared the gospel to them, then they have no excuse: they cannot tell God they didn't hear or understand.

    Now, why do you think your grandmother is not saved? If she is truly sorry for her sin, God knows her heart. That is all that counts, really. Have you had a chance to talk to her since then so that you can ask her how she feels about God and what she is thinking about the prayer that she prayed?

    How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? :cool:
     
  10. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I'm 24.

    I'm concerned about her because obviously she had no imagination what being a sinner means. She didn't understand it. This scares me. How can she repent when she doesn't even feel like being a sinner? I mean I explained it to her and she also agreed but what if this was only intellectual? I mean if I prove to her that she is a sinner the same way I can prove that 2+2=4 and she agrees then isn't this just an intellectual agreement? But from what I have heard you have to have the conviction of the holy spirit and how can she have had this conviction when she didn't even know what being a sinner means? :(

    &gt;God does save everyone who wants to be saved.

    She wanted to be saved. She was interested in it and didn't take it lightly and she was also thankful that I explained this to her. But I have talked about this with other christians too and somebody told me that you can want to be saved and still not become saved if you don't repent. I don't know what to do now. Maybe she knows what sinning means. She also said she prays every night and so on. But this whole stuff really scared me. I was not expecting this at all. I thought I just have to explain to her that she has to accept Jesus and then have her repeat this prayer and then everything is fine. I wasn't expecting this question at all. I felt like being close to the goal and then suddenly this happens. But what shall I do if she doesn't understand it? I'm really afraid of asking her again wether she knows that she's a sinner. What if she says no? Then the whole thing starts all over. What shall I do then? Try to explain it again? But if intellectual understanding doesn't help you and if you need a conviction of the holy spirit then my whole explanation was senseless since she needs the holy spirit to convict her. But then I don't understand why didn't the holy spirit convict her? I really don't understand this. What if she's cursed and cannot repent? I have heard of such cases where people were immune and could not repent. I feel like this situation totally overextends me. Please pray for her. I don't know what to do.
     

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