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Discussion in 'Politics' started by LadyEagle, Sep 25, 2008.
I guarantee you that if(when ) Senator Obama wins on November 4 that the issue you are posting about won't matter one tiny bit.
Kind of sounds like Troopergate, delay the hearing...
Unless it is true and proven, in which case we will have a constitutional crisis and President Biden.
It won't happen, Major B, if Senator Obama wins.
Anyone can file a lawsuit about anything in this country.
Hear me out on this one, Ken. I don't know if the claim is credible or not, but if he wins and is THEN found to be ineligible to be president, it would spark a constitutional crisis worse than we have ever had. If that is the case, the election could not and would not trump the situation. It would be very damaging to the nation, and would overshadow everything else.
There is no basis for this nonsense, Major B.
Your scenario is a fantasy( but a great movie script ).
Sorry, but I will exit this thread for more substantive discussions.
Not daring to consider the possibilities, Ken scuttles off to friendlier subjects, gambling that if Obama is found to be ineligible after he is elected, that no one would dare challenge the result.
He's dead wrong.
Why not just prove it and get the issue settled Mr. Obomba? :thumbs:
Would he be the first American that didn't have a birth certificate?
My Dad didn't have one because he wasn't born in a hospital. He was born in 28 but had only a piece of paper dated 33 which was then the census people came around.
First of all I don't see any proof that Obama was born in Kenya. Secondly you need to brush up on your citizenship law, especially "ius sanguinis", or are you claiming that his mother was not a US citizen when Obama was born? I wouild love to hear your theory on that. Either way he is still a US citizen and this a serious waste of the court's time, not to mention ours.
Here's a thought go after the guy on something that is actually relevant, such as his political leanings and behavior. If he is truly as bad for this country as you say all of this other nonsense wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Know what? Don't bother it is kind of amusing watching you all shake in your boots. For seemingly intelligent people some of this stuff that has been dredged up is just plain DUMB. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
On a side note what did you really expect the DNC and Obama to do? Entertain this guy's delusions in an actual courtroom? They did what any lawyer would do when they filed a motion to dismiss.
I dunno, this keeps coming up, and nobody is able to make it go away....
Remember, you'se laughed at the ENQUIRER when they broke the John Edwards story, and now he's a nobody in the DNC.
Either this story is a recurring flakes-only drama, or the Dems could end up with the most egg on their face in history....
He has produced his birth cert, but that is not enough to satisfy some, because it says on the internet that it might be a forgery.
This is a new low in tactics, calling Sen Omama, "The Kenyan" without one shred of evidence. Even the cited source called him "Obama" in the title of the article.
How many times does this stuff have to be refuted? Just because someone keeps saying it doesn't make it true.
Thank for that clarification.
I have a feeling that it won't be enough to satisfy some here .
Don't you know that someone could have easily gone back and replaced the 1961 newspapers with forged ones which included the false birth announcement?
What about FP pointing out his Mom is American. Does that make him American no matter what the rest of this comes to?
I'm satisfied, but I don't think the question is so out of bounds. Certainly this board entertained more ridiculous 9/11 garbage than this......
This would seem to make Obama a citizen, depending on what he did as an adolescent.
So I guess the whole birth certificate thing is a non-issue.
Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: August 26, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."
We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.
Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?
Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?
Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.
Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?
Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.
Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:
• The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
• It isn't signed.
• No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
• In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
• The certificate number is blacked out.
• The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
• The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."
Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.
The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller
Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp
The raised seal
Blowup of text
You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.
The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.
The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.
The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.
We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.
Blowup of certificate number
Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, and then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.
We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."
We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."
In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:
Obama's birth announcement
The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.
Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.
When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."
–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller
United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.
State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.
Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.