Lazarus

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Sopranette, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Sopranette

    Sopranette
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    Just a quick question before church:
    Why did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead? If it is appointed for all men to die but once, isn't that a contradiction? Was it to gain more believers? If I had seen such a thing, I would have been more terrified than awe inspired, I would have been more inclined to see some sort of black magic at work going on, to see a man who was literally rotting in his tomb now walking and breathing!
    Thanks!

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  2. Alex Quackenbush

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    Obviously this was not the appointed time for Lazarus to die. Lazarus was resuscitated. He came back in his original body that was still subject to death.
     
  3. npetreley

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    That's an easy one!

    It's funny that you would bring up the "appointed once to die" thing. It's not some law that cannot be violated by God. When people cite that as though it's a "law", I often respond by saying, "That's going to come as a shock to Lazarus, Dorcas, and a whole bunch of others." Remember, Jesus raised more than just Lazarus, and if I recall correctly, many of the dead were raised at the time of the crucifixion.
     
  4. exscentric

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    Many think the immediate prior context of the raising is Luke 16.19ff the beggar Lazarus. Recall the final portion of that account? "27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

    Can you imagine Jewish leaders hearing this account then within hours/days hearing that a man named Lazaurs had been raised from the dead?

    :thumbs:
     
  5. skypair

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    It's a "sign miracle," John 20:30-31. There are 7 of them I believe but this is second to last. And no, it doesn't relate to Luke 16.

    This is a rather involved miracle with important clues. Lazarus himself symbolizes the OT saints being raised to earth into the MK of Christ and "supping" with Him and His "wife" at the marriage feast (Mt 22, Rev 19:7, 17)

    Martha -- remember, the one who worked in the kitchen while Mary tended to Jesus? She represents the OT saints who were too busy with their rituals and the temple to realize that Jesus had come!

    And Mary? Shortest verse in scripture "Jesus wept." Mary represents the tribulation Jews, mostly martyrs, whom when Jesus contemplated, He lost His composure with sadness.

    Recall that our first word on Lazarus is that he was sick and Jesus said "not sick unto death." Already Jesus was speaking symbolically for Lazarus himself did die but the OT saints "merely slept" awaiting the "resurrection of the just" (the one Lazarus prefigures here).

    There are time elements as I see it. Notice Jesus waited 2 days to go to Lazarus and when they got there, he had been dead 4 days. Two days from Father Abraham to Jesus and 2 days till the "resurrection of the just?" I think it points to Israel.

    Notice who meets Jesus first and says, "If you had been here, Lazarus would not have died." Truth is, Jesus did come but Lazarus/Israel didn't see Him, right? But to her, Jesus elucidates the doctrine of the resurrection for both Israel and for the church, John 11:25-26!! -- "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

    Then notice -- Martha goes and tells Mary just like some of OT Israel informs the church -- who then comes and says that same thing to Jesus.

    But here we come to the picture of Christ's return to resurrect the OT and trib saints -- "take away the stone" [He was that "stone of stumbling," right?] which He does in the trib, Zech 12:10, to see the glory of God, right, 11:40?

    Then He calls Lazarus forth! I see the fulfillment as being just prior to the judgment seats in Mt 25:14-46 and Rev 20:4. This is Job 19:25-28, Isa 26:19-21, Psa 50:3-5, Ezek 37:12-14, etc.

    skypair
     
  6. npetreley

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    Shades of Origen!

    You forgot these tidbits, skypair:

    The name Lazarus is itself symbolic. L symbolizes love, A symbolizes Apples, Z symbolizes Zebras, A symbolizes Aardvarks, R symbolizes Roadkill, U symbolizes U-and-Me, and S symbolizes Salvation. Put them together, and Jesus is clearly telling us that if we love Him, we should feed apples to Zebras and Aardvarks, lest they become Roadkill, which would be bad for U-and-Me and would mean we risk losing our Salvation.

    If you look really closely, you'll find that Lazarus wasn't even human. He was a camel. How do I know this? If you take every third letter in this passage, add up the numeric values of these letters, you get a total of 5,280. There are 5,280 feet in a mile. As you know, the saying goes, "I'd walk a mile for camel", which proves that Lazarus was really a camel.

    Thank you. You'll be tested at the end of the week on this.
     
  7. Amy.G

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    Why do you want to complicate things so much? NP was right. It's very simple. Jesus Himself gave us the reason why He raised Lazarus.

    4 When Jesus heard that, He said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”

    I doubt if all those people who saw Lazarus walking out of the tomb thought about the MK. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Amy.G

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. skypair

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    When is a blessing not a blessing? When it isn't received. Too bad. :tear:

    skypair
     
  10. Amy.G

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    What is the blessing you're referring to? You're previous post? It was just confusion for me. Sorry.
     
  11. npetreley

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    Also, it's not a blessing when you pull the so-called blessing out of some orifice. That's what's known as an imaginary blessing.
     
  12. TCGreek

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    1. When the Bible tells us something, Why do we find ourselves going around. In the case of Lazarus, Jesus Himself says why He was going to raise Lazarus:

    1 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. 3 Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”
    4 When Jesus heard that, He said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”

    2. Thanks for the quote, Npet.
     
  13. Amy.G

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    To continue on in the account of Lazarus:


    Jhn 11:40 Jesus *said to her, "Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?"
    Jhn 11:41 So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
    Jhn 11:42 "I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me."

    They would see the glory of God.
    They would believe that Jesus was sent by God.
    That's why He did it.
     
  14. tinytim

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    Everyone is appointed to die at least once....

    Some had to die twice!
     
  15. canadyjd

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    I stand in awe of your insights!:laugh:

    peace to you:praying:
     
  16. Sopranette

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    For those who say it wasn't Lazarus' appointed time to die, but he did anyway, are you suggesting God made a mistake, and Jesus corrected it?

    Part two of my question: Why did Jesus perform miracles at all? He certainly didn't need to.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  17. Amy.G

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    God doesn't make mistakes.

    Here's some scripture to clear up why Jesus did miracles.




    Jhn 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
    Jhn 10:37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
    Jhn 10:38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."
    Jhn 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
    Jhn 14:11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

    The miracles testify to who Jesus is, that He is from the Father, that He and the Father are one and the same. The works (miracles) He performed could only have been done by God. The miracles prove that Jesus is God.
     
    #17 Amy.G, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2007
  18. Sopranette

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    Okay, God didn't make mistakes. Let's leave it at that. But what happened to Lazarus, during the four days he was dead? Was he in pergatory or limbo? Was he "special" in some way, to be made an example of? Was he a foretelling of things to come in Christ's own life? Was he just a parable? I was taught that, when a person dies, that person is physically instantly either in Heaven or Hell, with no way to cross over from one to the other (look at the tale of the other Lazarus). Was Lazarus able to do this, when no other man could do so?

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  19. Scarlett O.

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    I can tell by your continuing this post and beginning the next sentence with "but" that you don't want to leave it at that. :laugh:

    There is no biblical account nor defense of pergatory or limbo. They don't exist.

    No more special than any other dead person. In fact, his sister said that he stunk.

    This idea of raising people from the dead was understood in the book of Genesis. The bible says in Hebrews that Abraham was willing to kill his own son at God's command because he knew that God could raise people from the dead.

    Lots of people in the bible were raised from the dead. Many at the hands of Jesus. Entire graveyards burst open with dead people coming to life when Jesus resurrected from the dead, Himself.

    I'm not sure why you are focused so intently on Lazurus when there are scores of accounts of people being raised from the dead in the bible.

    Jesus Christ, however, was resurrected never to die again. Ever one else who was raised from the dead - well, they died again - once and for all.

    No. The foretellings of things to come in Christ's own life and I assume that you are talking about His death and resurrection can be found in places like Genesis 3, Isaiah 53, and in the Gospels of Jesus' own foretelling of His own death.

    Others have have given you the scripture passages that tell why he died. Read them.

    No. He was a real person.

    He and his sisters were personal friends of Jesus. He got sick. His sisters sent a message to Jesus to come to him. I can only only assume that they wanted Jesus to come and heal him.

    Jesus wouldn't come. In fact, the bible says that He stayed away on purpose for two days. It was necessary that Lazarus die so that Jesus could be glorifed in raising him. That's what the bible says. I'm the third person now to say that.

    With all due respect, you were taught wrong.

    The bible doesn't say that we are instantly in one place or the other, but it hints at it. I personsally believe we are. There are lots of people who go around quoting "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", but the bible doesn't say that.

    By the other "Lazurus", do you mean Lazurus and the rich man? The rich man went to hell and was not able to leave there. Lazurus went to "Abraham's bosom".

    This Lazurus, the one raised by Jesus did not do something that no one else was able to do. He did nothing except die. All of the scores of people in the bible who were raised from the dead did nothing and were nothing special.

    Jesus did all the work. He allowed him time to die and then came and raised him so that He, Himself, would be glorified.

    The focus on this very real story is on Jesus......not Lazurus.
     
    #19 Scarlett O., Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  20. Aaron

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    That's right. It was for a sign. It signified Christ's authority over death and hell.

    Possibly, except for the Dispenastional aspects. Hard to say exactly.
     

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