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Learning from David and Michal

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ingo Breuer, May 2, 2009.

  1. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    I just do not understand how anyone can interpret scripture the way some do. We can not hold any standards we have now to those who were in a different standard.

    Furthermore, the only times I have heard someone trying to show David was in a homosexual relationship with Jonathan was when they were trying to defend their own homosexual relationship.
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Not the only time. Either they are trying to defend their own homosexual relationship, or they are just a person that loves to mock the Bible at every opportunity they can. Corndoggy is a troll through and through. He continually tries to find ways to pervert the Scripture and mock it in any way he can. He's questioned in the past why his pastor won't let him get up and speak in front of groups of people and partipate in ministries. Obviously his pastor sees him as someone that perverts the Word of God as well.

    I'm amazed that he is allowed to continue on this board and mock our God as he does. We aren't allowed to comment on another person's salvation, or I would.
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Arguments from silence are not worth much, and not worth responding to.
     
    #23 webdog, May 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2009
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I agree. He is a troll, and may not last long on this board.
    Please do not stoop to his level.
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Why just David? Compare Scripture with Scripture?
    Isaiah was not "just" naked?

    Isaiah 20:2-3 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot.
    3 And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;

    Now what if God gave you that command? What would you do?
    Or do you understand the command that God gave to Isaiah?
    How much of Scripture do you really understand?
    What did Isaiah really do; really look like for those three years? Please explain.
     
  6. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    1 Samuel 18:4 - "And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle."


    If you start stripping and take off your robe, your garments underneath that robe, and your girdle... tell me, what exactly is left in terms of clothes???
     
  7. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    Sorry, can't comment, that's way too drastic of a subject change for perverts to comprehend. :thumbs:
     
  8. historyb

    historyb New Member

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  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    If the relationship between David and Jonathan had been homosexual, the Bible would not have used the word "love" nor presented it in such a positive way. This is proof that it was a deep friendship and bond. It is representative of God-inspired love.

    We see love between Jesus and the "beloved disciple" who liked to lay on his (Jesus) breast.

    "Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved" (John 13:23).

    Any relationship between men spoken of in a positive way as was David's and Jonathan's and Jesus and this disciple is a relationship that does not go against God's word.
     
  10. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Corndoggy, you have my pity. Your idea that David and Jonathan's relationship was homosexual is nothing short of blasphemy. I Samuel 18 follows the account of David's defeat over Goliath and the saving of Saul's army. It is obvious that Jonathan's devotion to David stems from Jonathan's recognition of David as the Lord's anointed king. It must have been humbling for the king's son to stand before David. David did what the entire army could not do. Jonathan paid homage to the victor; honor David did not receive from his own siblings. Jonathan watched his father Saul lie impotent against the Philistines. He recognized his fathers claim to the throne was because of popular appeal. Jonathan saw the true king in David. If you find any sexual implications in that, you are indeed a very troubled individual.

    Jonathan stripped himself of his robe and armor. He was arrayed for battle. David, who actually fought against Goliath, wore nothing but the clothing of a shepherd. Jonathan, as son to the king, was heir apparent to the throne of Israel. He removed his regal garment - the robe of a prince - and gave it as a symbol of honor to the rightful heir apparent. I say again, If you find any sexual implications in that, you are indeed a very troubled individual.
     
    #30 padredurand, May 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2009
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    We need to get serious here.
    1. You are admitting that you are a pervert. Is this correct?
    2. In doing so, the administration will have cause to ban you immediately.
    3. This is not a joking matter.

    Ephesians 5:3-4 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

    Ephesians 5:11-12 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
    12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

    Ephesians 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    He didn't take off his robe and his garments underneath the robe. He took off his royal coat and his armor, and his belt. There would have been clothes under that.

    1 Sam 18:4 Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, with his armor, including his sword and his bow and his belt.

    The issue here is apparently the recognition of Jonathan that David was to be the next king. It has nothing to do with an immoral relationship. You have to have a perverted mind to read that into the text.
     
  13. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    Ever heard of sarcasm? Perhaps if I didn't have one moderator saying "you are a pervert" and another trying to give me an unrelated quiz to prove that I am, I wouldn't feel the need to try to laugh it off. :thumbs: Otherwise, if I wanted to joke around, this is about the last place I'd come. Some of you need to knock it off with the personal insults. That last one from you was borderline calling me a fool with the way you bolded stuff.
     
    #33 corndogggy, May 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2009
  14. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    If you want to use different versions other than the KJV to prove he didn't take his clothes off, consider the World English bible:

    "Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him, and gave it to David, and his clothing, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his sash."
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I didn't use a different version to prove he didn't take his clothes off. I used a different version to show that your understanding is wrong. The word used there is mad, which TWOT say "usually denotes a priest’s garment (Lev 6:3), a soldier’s fighting garb (I Sam 17:38; 18:4; II Sam 20:8), or just an outer garment (I Sam 4:12; Jud 3:16)." It is an outer garment, not inner garments. It would be perhaps similar to taking off a coat or a sweater. There is a word for normal clothes and this is not it.

    The text simply will not back you up on this.
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    First of all by the demeanor of your posts throughout this thread you are making a mockery of the Bible, and have indicated that when it comes to subjects like homosexuality that you could indeed be what some call a "pervert." I don't think you have all here convinced that you are not.
    Second, be informed that in the past there was one that was banned from here simply because he was.
    Third, Your insistence that Jonathan was homosexual is not a joking matter.
    Fourth, I wasn't joking around, as I stated at the beginning of my post. I am serious.
    Fifth, I didn't call you a fool; the Scriptures did. If the shoe fits wear it.

    By your own admission you do not want to comment on the Isaiah passage. And for what reason did you state?
    Would you care to try again?
     
  17. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    My unsarcastic reason is that I don't see the need for me to be singled out to have to pass some kind of weird quiz of yours on an unrelated subject to prove that I interpret that other passage in the same way that you do in order to be able to comment on this subject.
     
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    What on earth are you talking about? It is a related question. I am interested in your knowledge of Biblical heremeneutics. It is related because the Bible says that Isaiah was also naked, and that for three years. How do you account for Isaiah's nakedness in comparison to David's nakedness? Why are you so reluctant to answer a simple Biblical question?
     
  19. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    Hang on now, I thought everybody else's official stance was that David didn't get anywhere near naked, neither while dancing nor with Jonathan? When did David get naked in your opinion?
     
    #39 corndogggy, May 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2009
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I'm not talking about my opinion. I haven't given it. I am talking about your stance in this issue and what you have already stated about David's nakedness. In the light of what you have already stated, what is your position on Isaiah nakedness? That is all that I am asking.
     
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