Left Behind...saved or not?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DiamondLady, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. DiamondLady

    DiamondLady
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know there are many views here on the end times, tribulations, pre/post., etc. For the purpose of this question/discussion there is a rapture and the church is gone during the tribulation. I'm not interested in a debate over if there's going to be a rapture, etc.

    So here's my questions.....
    After the church is raptured, during the 7 year tribulation will folks be able to be saved? Will the Holy Spirit be gone or here to still deal with men's hearts? Scriptures to back up your thoughts and opinions?
     
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    believe ALL of those whom God has chosen to elect into Christ for salvation and Eternal Life will become saved!

    To the OP...

    believe that God states to us that he will give us over to a 'spirit of delusion" that man will believe in the "Big Lie"
    Believe that refers to the state of affairs AFTER the Rapture of the Church from the earth, and those still hear will believe that the Beast and Antichrist are sent from/by God, and will freely take on themselves mark of the beast...

    MANY will still be saved by God at this time, but those NOT part of the rapture just may be those 'blinded" by God to follow the Beast!
     
  3. MB

    MB
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,557
    Likes Received:
    13
    This is the best answer I've read from "grace through faith"
    According to Jeremiah 30:11 the purpose of the Great Tribulation is two-fold. One is to completely destroy the nations among which the Jews have been scattered, and the other is to discipline Israel. This discipline will cause them to recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and will happen in several stages.
    The first is when as a nation they return to their Old Covenant relationship with God following the Battle of Ezekiel 38. (Ezekiel 39:22) prompting the building of a Temple in Israel. This is when Daniel’s 70th Week will begin. The second is when they petition God’s return to save them (Hosea 6:1-2), and the third is near the end of the Great Tribulation when they realize that Jesus has been their Messiah all along (Zechariah 12:10).

    As I understand it the times of the Gentiles will be over. If they had there chance before the tribulation and didn't receive Christ it's to late. The tribulation is about the Jews only and has nothing to do with Gentiles as far as I know. This doesn't mean they can't be saved during the tribulation. it just that they will have no comforter or, Holy Spirit, for which to guide them only the scriptures and the two witnesses that has been prophesised.
    Hope this helps.
    MB
     
    #3 MB, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2011
  4. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Here we see that the church has been taken and following the Tribulation Christ has the elect (saved) gathered from the four winds in other words from all over the Earth.

    This shows the ingathering at the End of the Tribualation. Matthew 24: 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    Again there are saved and unsaved together, from all nations. Appears there will. Couple that with Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Again appears that the saved who survive the Tribulation will be in the Messianic/Millineal Kingdom with Christ.
     
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Those whose name was found written in Lambs Book of Life are saved/redeemed, those not freely receive mark of the Beast and are lost?

    The 144,000 jewish "Billy Grahams" get the Gospel out to ALL those left behind, and those not in the Book are damned by freely refusing Christ and receiving itstead the beast?
     
  6. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Those whose names are found written in The Lambs book of life are left and enter the Kingdom, the unbeliever is taken and put to death. Here we see Revelation 19:21 "...the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth..." fulfilling Matthew 24: 40 to 44 the one left is the believer who will go into the Millinial Kingdom.
     
  7. MB

    MB
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,557
    Likes Received:
    13
    revmwc;
    Since this OP was not interested in argument I won't participate in this with you. besides everything you said Has been argued too many times before.
    MB
     
  8. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    She asked for our opions and why so I posted. You can post your views as you wish if the fit what was asked for in the OP and since there was the statement of no debate then there should be none. The reason I posted to Jesus Fan was he placed a "?" behind what he posted, so I thought he was asking for clarification.
    She also said in the OP that "For the purpose of this question/discussion there is a rapture and the church is gone during the tribulation" so the OP deals with the assumption there is a rapture and that it took place. So opposing views were not requested and the rapture was not the question, it was whether folks could or couldn't be saved during it.
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    yep. my take to on the OP was that was adressing WHO can be saved after rapture, not IF there is one!
     
  10. DiamondLady

    DiamondLady
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks...yes, it's WHO and IF they CAN be saved. Can one be saved without the Holy Spirit drawing them?

    I have always believed that the Jews will be witnessed to by the 144,000 and the 2 witnesses. They will become the remnant. I have also always believed that Gentiles can also be saved. I've always based this belief upon the fact that in Revelation those who stand for Christ are beheaded. If there are no believers there won't be anyone to be beheaded. Also the book of Revelation talks about the martyrs under the altar (and I know those are OT saints) but they're told to wait a little while they'll be joined by more....those must be those saved during the tribulation and are martyred.

    However, recently heard a preacher say that the Holy Spirit will be removed and that no one will be saved during the tribulation.

    Which is correct? That was why I asked the questions and asked for scriptures and was not interested in an argument on whether or not there will be a rapture, etc.
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Think that the Holy Spirit is "not" removed, as he is Omnipresent, BUT do think that he will be "reverting" back to dealing with people more like he was during the OT times...

    Body of Christ removed and in heaven with Jesus, HS here to work through the 144,000 to preach message of the Kingdom to all the earth at that time!

    Those kiledd off for Sake of Jesus appear to be addd into the Body of Christ while those left alive, Jews and Gentiles enter into the Millenium, in "normal" bodies so to speak....
     
  12. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Well I answered as I though you asked someone else said "revmwc;
    Since this OP was not interested in argument I won't participate in this with you. besides everything you said Has been argued too many times before." So I answered and JF asked me a question and I answered was not arguing with him just clarifying.
    You can see my answer and scripture provided as to how I see. The pastor I grew up under taught that if someone didn't receive Christ before the rapture they couldn't be saved, David Jeremiah on his radio program said if they had rejected prior to the Trib then thye couldn't be saved. There are many different views, but the one fact remains true there will be belivers only who go into the Millenial Kingdom and with the church snatched away they could only be saved in the Tribulation.
     
  13. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    He will not be restraining the evil and sin as He has. The thing is He will not be indwelling people but will come upon those whom He will. Like He came upon Samson and others in the O.T.
     
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed, that is why I said that he will still be here, but acting and doing as He did in OT times, before Pentecost!
     
  15. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    My understanding of the doctrine of the Rapture is that it is the "catching away" of the Universal Church...(all believers worldwide) All of them.

    Which obviously means those left behind never were Gods people, and cant *quickly* become one. Its too late.
     
    #15 Alive in Christ, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2011
  16. DiamondLady

    DiamondLady
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    0
    I honestly don't mind you sharing the opposite view, if you could provide scriptures it would be helpful. I really am trying to weigh the two views for accuracy, scripture and clarity for my own self. That's why I said I wasn't interested in an argument or debate. I'd like to hear both views...people will and people will not be saved during the tribulation.
     
  17. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    I don't hold the opposing view, but many others do and when that happens we begin to debate. However I will refrain from that since you asked.
     

Share This Page

Loading...