Legalism in Sanctification, too

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    We all know that the basic concept of LEGALISM is adding "works to grace". It is most evident when dealing with salvation.

    But on another thread, a (here-unnamed) poster wrote "Legalism is the monster that tries to earn salvation, it has nothing to do with sanctification; which is out of the hands of men anyhow."

    Isn't adding our works to living for Christ AFTER salvation just another facet of the exact same legalism?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. David Mark

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    I really don't understand what you are driving at Dr. Bob, but the post did make think about works and their place in a believers life.

    If I give to someone who is poor I've done a work or deed.

    But what is my secret motivation? To please men or please God?

    First of all there is promise to those who care for the poor and I am encouraged to do things in sort of a secretive manner. Avoiding the temptation of seeking the praise of men.

    But none of my works or deeds can make me right with God. None of my works can make me a righteous man.

    Only faith in the Christ can make me a righteous man.

    Once made righteous, I can finally begin to do works of righteousness. There seems to be endless positive results tied to doing good deeds or works of righteousness. Either now or later. This is agreeable to me, because I am encouraged to store up treasure in heaven. I also want to be like my Father who is in heaven, so there is another reason for me to consider the poor. He cares for the poor. I also understand that it is God himslef that works in me to create a desire to do good things. So boasting of myself is out.

    If I try to do any good deed apart from faith in the Christ, then my works would be vain. If good deeds are entirely and consistently missing in my life, then I should consider the legitimacy of my faith.

    Only a righteous man can do works of righteousness. Only those who believe in the one whom God hath sent can be made righteous.

    It can be complex and confusing if I begin to compare myself to other men and especially to vain religious men (they do exist). My deeds may be small and insignificant. But I do what I can with what I have and I do it by faith. If I stumble (and I do) I have a Savior, The Holy Spirit and a Father that can get me back on track to thinking right. Having less works than anyone else doesn't trouble me like it used to, for I have indeed been given little. The key for me is to be faithful with what little I have been given and mind my own business.

    I've been made righteous, that is settled. Now I am free to move ahead and do works of righteousness or good deeds.

    That is how I think about works.

    Dave.
     
  3. massdak

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    for a Christian to become legalistic they will be trying to be obedient by their own flesh. it is difficult to manage, a person will always try even if by secrete desire some way to recommend their own good works to God, the motivation might be for material blessings or by guilt or just plain ole religious pious subtle life style which is even more difficult to know about. when i try to examine my own motives i find i cannot even trust myself.
    that is why focusing shouldn't be on obedience instead of dependence on Christ.
     
  4. Daniel David

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    Sanctification is accomplished the same way justification is, namely by grace through faith.

    We are told to walk by faith.

    Paul calls the galatians fools for trying to perfect themselves by works.
     
  5. Precepts

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    It was me! It was me! [​IMG]

    I confess!

    I just see it all too often how the more liberal in their walk with Christ will use the term "legalism" out of context in the effort to either defend their liberal attitude or accuse their brother in Christ.

    When the Lord has done the work in man's heart to do certain things, get rid of "bad" things, and even sometimes good things, that is true sanctification; that which man does in his flesh is not sanctification, but could be looked at as legalism, post salvation.

    It becomes then legalistic due to the "demand" for others to line up with what the flesh has "accomplished", which I put in "" becuase it is in a false sense rooted in pride.

    I know many "legalistic" Christians, but no Christians guitly of legalism. The legalistics will demand you obey their command to either attain there doctrine/mode of conduct, or refrain from certain activities to maintain proper fellowship. That is a crock and wicked as hell. Why? Because we get our standards and convictions from God as we grow, so to require others to meet up to us is hypocritical because we too had to have had a time in our walk with Christ to have left childish things behind. Paul said, "When I was a child, I spake as a child, but now I put away childish things." So for me to expect others to do just like I do is legalistic, not legalism.

    The two are synonymous, but not exactly the same, uh, synonymous. ( 3 times I said that in one sentence :D ) But neither are legitimate to God, maybe to other practicing legalists, or those practicing Christians of legalistics.

    I don't "work" to get saved. I don't "work" to stay saved. I just "work" because I am saved; uh, those works that the Lord has prompted me to do, that is.

    Thanks Daniel Mark, great post!

    Dr. Bob Griffeth, I don't mind if you address me personally, by calling me by my name or screen name.
     
  6. Kiffin

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    I am not sure I understand the thread. I do agree that sanctification must be done as stated by grace through faith. You cannot separate sanctification from justification in that it testifies of our justification or is the fruit of it. To be legalistic would mean we are seeking to please God in our flesh outside of faith or earn our salvation.
     
  7. StraightAndNarrow

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    If you "do nothing" which side will you stand on in the judgement?

    Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
    Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
    Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
    Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  8. massdak

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    those who have been drawn by the Lord and saved will be the sheep. even if a person does all those things and they are not saved will go to hell. any person who believes they have to do good works by adding it to faith for salvation then they are lost.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    My thinking is this way. I got saved because I believed. Now, of course, I realize that this faith to repent/believe was a gift from God not of my own works.

    Saving faith, given by God's grace alone. HE ALONE deserves credit.

    So now I'm saved. What works should I do to please God? Read bible, witness, tithe, ten commandments? We're not talking works to GET saved or (like Finney/arminians) to KEEP saved. What should I do?

    SAME THING. Without faith, it is impossible to please God.

    So when I do a GOOD thing (after salvation) it is again only because God gives me the faith to do it and therefore HE ALONE deserves credit.

    So if I see a person hungry and give him food based on my pity or civic duty or anything short of God's faith given to me, it is "wood, hay, stubble."
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    What if you feed the poor out of obedience? Huh?
     
  11. Johnv

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    My thoughts? The more and more we get bogged down with words that end with "-ism", the mroe and more I just want to chuck every commentary and reference document ever ritten, and start at square one: Just follow as the Holy Spirit leads to the best of your imperfect, human ability, and let everyone else do likewise. Let no one criticize you for you you live your faith, and likewise criticize no one for the same. Know the difference between doctrine and application when discussing same with others. Aside from that, keep your eyes on God, your feet moving, your hands open, and your mouth shut [​IMG]
     
  12. Precepts

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    Isaiah 62:10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
    Just curious John, What do you do with this verse?
     
  13. Baptist1611KJV

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    Good works has NO part of salvation. You do, though, have to come to God with a repentive heart. After salvation, good works is what shows the lost World that you are a Christian. The Bible says," By their fruits you should know them". Like James 2:17 says, If you do not have works your faith is dead. If you do not live a holy, godly, separated life, why did you get saved in the first place?
     

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