Lest We Drift...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by TCGreek, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. Why the the KJV translators render μηποτε παραρρυωμεν, "lest at any time we should let them slip," when παραρρυωμεν is aorist active subjunctive?

    2. Shouldn't μηποτε παραρρυωμεν be translated "Lest we drift away from them, reflecting the active verb παραρρυωμεν?
     
  2. Deacon

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    Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should *let them slip.
    *Gr. run out as leaking vessels. Comp. rather Job 6. 15.
    Hebrews 2:1 AV 1873

    After reading the textual note, one wonders if the KJV translators were using a play on words, leaking vessels//slip (n) as in a safe dock.

    It’s interesting how other versions use the word “drift”, which also has the nautical theme.

    Rob
     
    #2 Deacon, Dec 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2007
  3. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Why then is this 1st pl, aorist, active, subj. παραρρυωμεν rendered the way it has in the MVs?
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon
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    Well if you’re going to get technical… :rolleyes:
    ...let me provide some definitions for everybody,

    aorist — The aorist verb tense is used by the writer to present the action of a verb as a “snapshot” event. The verb’s action is portrayed simply and in summary fashion without respect to any process. In the indicative mood, the aorist usually denotes past time, while an aorist participle usually refers to antecedent time with respect to the main verb. Outside the indicative and the participle, the aorist does not indicate time. “First Aorist” refers to the inflected form. First Aorist verbs are marked by the epsilon (ε) augment and -σα as part of the suffix endings.

    active — The grammatical voice that signifies that the subject is performing the verbal action or is in the state described by the verb.

    passive — The grammatical voice that signifies that the subject is being acted upon; i.e., the subject is the receiver of the verbal action. A verb in the passive voice with God as the stated or implied agent is often referred to as the “divine passive.”

    subjunctive — The mood that normally presents the verbal action as being probable. The subjunctive can also express verbal action in terms of mere possibility. However it is the optative mood that points to possibility more than probability.

    subordinating — A conjunction that links two unequal grammatical elements together. That is, a conjunction that links a clause into a subordinate relationship to another clause. For example, a conjunction that links a dependent clause (a clause that lacks a subject or predicate rendering its meaning unclear or incomplete) to an independent clause (a clause that has both subject and predicate and expresses a complete idea).

    conjunction — A word that functions to connect individual words and constructions in various ways.

    >from M. S. Heiser, (2005). Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology, Logos Bible Software.


    μηποτε παραρρυωμεν is a secondary (subordinate) clause offering nuance to the previous independent clause.
    According to my data παραρρυωμεν is classified as a passive, aorist subjuctive (and who am I to argue?).

    Here's a site you may find helpful: Opentext.org [Hebrews 2]

    As I see it, both the AV and MV's handle the aorist form differently but well within reason hence the AV’s insertion of “at any time”.

    Could you give more information as to the difficulties you see?

    Rob
     
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    What is your source that says παραρρυωμεν is passive?
     
  6. Deacon

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    I wouldn’t recognize an active tense if I tripped over it,
    or a passive tense if it wacked me between the eyes.

    But here are two sources with their notes.

    1. Lest haply we drift away (μη ποτε παραρυωμεν [mē pote pararuōmen]).
    Negative clause of purpose with μη ποτε [mē pote] and the second aorist passive subjunctive of παραρρεω [pararreō], old verb to flow by or past, to glide by, only here in N.T. (cf. Prov. 3:21).

    Robertson, A. (1997). Word Pictures in the New Testament. Vol.V c1932, Vol.VI c1933 (Heb 2:1).


    and 2.
    παραρυωμεν (παραρρέω [1 / 1])
    • verb, first person, plural, aorist, passive, subjunctive
    • "pararyōmen"
    • "pararreō"
    • "we might drift"
    • "flow by, slip away; be washed away, drift away"

    4184 παραρρέω (pararreō): vb.; ≡ Str 3901—LN 31.69 drift away (from belief), flow past, slip away (Heb 2:1+)

    Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Then again some others classify it as active:

    παραρυωμεν (verb, aorist, active, subjunctive, first person, plural)
    flow by, slip away; be washed away, drift away

    Lukaszewski, A. L. (2006). The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Expansions and Annotations (Heb 2:1). Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Teach me! How does one go about classifying a word like this?

    Rob
     
  7. TCGreek

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    1. παραρυωμεν is clearly presenting numerous problems: some treat it as active, while others see it as passive; some see a nautical imagery, while other dismiss it (BDAG, s.v.)

    2. But even if we should treat παραρυωμεν as passive, following BDAG, then we should also treat it as intransitive, "lest we drift away."

    3. As a second aorist παραρυωμεν must be seen as passive, because in this case it fits the formation of the 2nd aorist for the epsilon omega verbs. Then AT Roberston is correct is seeing παραρυωμεν as 1prs. pl. 2 aor. subj.
     
  8. Deacon

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    :sleeping_2: At this point my eyes glaze over and I stumble back to my Hebrew.

    Rob
     

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