"Let the Spirit guide you..."

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by uhdum, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. uhdum

    uhdum
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    At the Christian high school from which I graduated, our class dealt somewhat with the whole version debate.

    A friend of mine complained one day that he had a hard time understanding the English of the KJV. Another friend of mine replied by telling him, "Let the Spirit guide you... the Bible cannot be understood unless God allows it; just pray to the Lord and He will help you to understand it."

    I have thought about this statement he made for the last three years. Any thoughts from either side?
     
  2. tinytim

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    That statement is full of pride.

    If you call your self a Bible believer and only accept doctrine that can be found in the Bible, then show me where in the Bible that it says that the Holy Spirit will teach you a new language. Oh, yeah, I guess Acts 2 would cover it.

    I've heard preachers say that you can understand the old english of the KJV if you are spiritual enough.

    I guess it makes them feel better about themselves to make those that disagree with them look unspiritual.
     
  3. Precepts

    Precepts
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    No, tiny, it means that the Lord is right to tell us the things of the Spirit the natural man can't discern, and the believer is not claiming James 1;5 or adhereing to his daily devotion and Bible study so the Lord can open his eyes so he understand the KJB, unless of course the believer is simply lost.

    I understand much about the KJB, but I know I'm not very spiritual.

    I have been teaching my SS class w/o any "planned" study, but only the topic of the "Disciples" out of Luke 14. The Lord has overwhelmed me with the relevent scriptures about discipleship, giving us exactly what he has for us every Sunday, and I'm not even spiritual, so there goes your false accustaion right out the window.

    Remember, God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe.

    The church is over-run with believers that have never actually been saved.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I let the Spirit guide me.
    He guided me away from the black & white KJVs
    into the full color of the Modern Versions (MVs).

    Does the holy spirit lead differenet
    people different directions? Here is a
    discussion of that:
    The leading of the Holy Spirit?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. robycop3

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    Scripture itself, as usual answers this question. The Holy Spirit caused everyone present at the "first Pentecost" to hear the preaching of Peter & the others IN HIS/HER OWN LANGUAGE! He did NOT cause each person who didn't use Peter's language to learn that language. Not that He couldn't do it, He did it in the manner HE CHOSE.


    As for the Holy Spirit's guidance into the meanings of the Scriptures automatically to those who sincerely seek to learn them, but He does NOT automatically do so for one attempting to read them in a language which with he/she's unfamiliar. Not that He CAN'T do it; He expects us to have enough gumption of our own to seek to read the Scriptures in our OWN language.
     
  6. uhdum

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    But what of my friend who doesn't understand the language of the KJV? Is he unsaved? Is he using that statement as an excuse? Or should he buckle down and get a good dictionary to help him out? Just trying to figure out your answer to my question :D

    God bless
     
  7. BrianT

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    Why not throw out the English translations, and just read the Hebrew and Greek texts? Or why not pick up a Russian or Japanese Bible? Just pray to the Lord and He will help you to understand it.
     
  8. Precepts

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    He doesn't ?!? You mean the Holy Ghost didn't take what they said in the galilean dialect and place the Truth in the ears of all those present in their own tongue?!?


    Explain how they all heard in so many different dialects then? They spoke in their dialect, the Holy Ghost did the interpeting, not men.

    The KJB is that "dialect" the Holy Ghost uses to interpet to all men. Men will try to deceive God by their flattery, but we know God cannot be deceived. The NasV translators try to relate otherwise.
     
  9. Precepts

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    Bercause what we understand about God is in English, along with the fact that Hebrew and Greek is not fully understood by those who claim to know it and have been raised to speak English.

    My stepmother claims Jesus is not the Messiah by what others tell her the Hebrew says, but I know people who speak Hebrew and are Jews and have been raised in the Jewish faith that know Jesus is Messiah and hold to the KJB. They show fruits of salvation she denies Jesus. I take their side because I know Jesus is Messiah.
     
  10. Elijah

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    If what this person said was true, we wouldnt need any translation at all. All we would need is the original text in Greek, Hebrew,and Aramaic. No need to be able to understand it, just let the Spirit guide you. :rolleyes: That way of thinking is ridiculous. :confused:
     
  11. Elijah

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    If what this person said was true, we wouldnt need any translation at all. All we would need is the original text in Greek, Hebrew,and Aramaic. No need to be able to understand it, just let the Spirit guide you. :rolleyes: That way of thinking is ridiculous. :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]And just to clarify ; I am not insinuating that we should not be open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
     
  12. Precepts

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    But what of my friend who doesn't understand the language of the KJV? Is he unsaved? Is he using that statement as an excuse? Or should he buckle down and get a good dictionary to help him out? Just trying to figure out your answer to my question :D

    God bless
    </font>[/QUOTE]How do you know your friend doesn't understand the language of the KJB? Don't you talk to him in English? If not then why don't you explain to him what the English is saying in his own language?

    To understand ANY language including the English one needs a good concise dictionary.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Precepts

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    If what this person said was true, we wouldnt need any translation at all. All we would need is the original text in Greek, Hebrew,and Aramaic. No need to be able to understand it, just let the Spirit guide you. :rolleyes: That way of thinking is ridiculous. :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]That kind of reasoning is silly. The Holy Ghost communicates to me in the langauge I understand and speak.
     
  14. Elijah

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    If what this person said was true, we wouldnt need any translation at all. All we would need is the original text in Greek, Hebrew,and Aramaic. No need to be able to understand it, just let the Spirit guide you. :rolleyes: That way of thinking is ridiculous. :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]That kind of reasoning is silly. The Holy Ghost communicates to me in the langauge I understand and speak. </font>[/QUOTE]The Holy Ghost is verbally speaking to you? You cant be serious, thats TBN stuff.
    PS. Good morning to you Precepts, and welcome to the fray. [​IMG]
     
  15. michelle

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    Peace and love to you in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

    The King James Bible is not in a foriegn language. The KJV is in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. You are again comparing apples with oranges. For those of you who say the English in the KJV is difficult to understand, that is plain ridiculous and unfounded. I am an ignoramous, as you have all clearly tried to show, but I can and do understand it. If I desire to find out the meanings of specific words that are archaic to us today, all I must do is look to the dictionary. When in doubt, get your dictionaries out! If a passage seems to be contradicting, I ask the Lord in prayer to reveal to me understanding concerning that. One more thing, if a person is not saved, they WILL NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF GOD'S WORD, until they are saved, because men are spiritually discerned to the things of God.

    So either this person is not saved.
    Or this person needs to understand the importance of a dictionary and other tools for Bible study available to them.
    Or this person does not desire to really know the things of God.
    Or this person does not want to make the efforts/work/motivation/discipline that Bible study requires.

    I hope this helps you uhdum. May the Lord richly bless you and the student who is being spoken of here.

    love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  16. mioque

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    "Let the Spirit guide you... the Bible cannot be understood unless God allows it; just pray to the Lord and He will help you to understand it."
    I heard the Dutch version of the same statement when I was about 14. That was about the Statenbijbel, I had read a page or 2 from one at a convention and could make head nor tails of some of it.
    Anyhow, 2 years later I once again tried to read a bit of a newly printed Statenbijbel and found my reading comprehension skills had been remarkably improved.....

    I was so disappointed when I discovered there had been an update of the language for readability purposes. [​IMG]
     
  17. uhdum

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    Because his exact words were, "I have a really hard time understanding the old English and wording of the KJV. I get frustrated trying to read it." Whether this is a valid excuse or not, my friend has had ADHD ever since he was young, and has always had troubles in reading and comprehension.

    Because he had already been told that if he prayed, God would reveal the meanings of the words to him. At a later point in the year, he offered his well-used NIV to a friend who needed a Bible. This person replied, "I'm not touching that thing!" and refused to touch it. He lowered his head and walked away.
     
  18. Elijah

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    Michelle - On the contrary ,I dont buy the notion that a lost person will not understand any of Gods word. I believe whole heartedly that a person can come to a saving knowledge of Christ with nothing but a bible, and an open heart. To insinuate that a person who has trouble understanding Shakesperian english may be lost, or has no desire to know the word of God is, well, just wrong.
    I preach and teach from only two translations the KJV, and the NKJV. These are my 'prefered' Bibles. But I would never tell a member of my congregation that prefers the NASB (for example) that they are not a true bible believer. Or lost or lack the desire to know the truth.
     
  19. BrianT

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    Really? Are you saying God *can't* help you understand something if you pray for understanding? So what if the languages are different, you're just hung up on the scale of God's help. If God can help you understand English better, he can help you understand Swahili better.

    I have a reprint of an original spelling Tyndale's, and a reprint of an original spelling Wycliffe's. They are VERY difficult to read, and they are "English". How should I better understand these?
     
  20. robycop3

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    Originally posted by robycop3:
    Scripture itself, as usual answers this question. The Holy Spirit caused everyone present at the "first Pentecost" to hear the preaching of Peter & the others IN HIS/HER OWN LANGUAGE! He did NOT cause each person who didn't use Peter's language to learn that language. Not that He couldn't do it, He did it in the manner HE CHOSE.

    Precepts:He doesn't ?!? You mean the Holy Ghost didn't take what they said in the galilean dialect and place the Truth in the ears of all those present in their own tongue?!?

    Plrase quit acting as if you can't read, so someone will feel sorry for you. You know perfectly well what I typed. And that was what Scripture says-that the Holy Spirit caused everyone to hear the preaching in his/her own language. If Peter was preaching in Aramaic, He caused a man whose only language was Coptic to hear Peter's words in Coptic. The Holy Spirit did NOT teach that man the Aramaic language, but caused him to hear in his own language.


    Explain how they all heard in so many different dialects then? They spoke in their dialect, the Holy Ghost did the interpeting, not men.

    Again, you pretended that you can't read well.

    The KJB is that "dialect" the Holy Ghost uses to interpet to all men.

    Please PROVE that it's the "ONLY" "dialect" He uses for the English speakers.

    *PROOF*, not "SPIN".


    Men will try to deceive God by their flattery, but we know God cannot be deceived. The NasV translators try to relate otherwise.

    No, they didn't.They plainly showed that God didn't buy it.You try to deceive US with your pro-KJVO statements, but you can't even provide a source for the authority of the KJVO myth-and you pretend to wonder why no one believes you...
     

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