Let your women keep silent...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. awaken

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    Let your women keep silent in churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law says. (1 Cor. 14:34)

    What does the Bible say about wemon preachers?

    I have researched many doctrines/ teachings over the last 10 years and this one still puzzles me.

    You have scriptures like 1 Cor. 14:38 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12 that tells wemon to keep silent and submissive.

    Then you have scriptures like Joel 2:28/Acts 2:17 where it says mentions Son's and DAUGHTERS will prophesy. God also used husband and wife teams teaching like Aquila and Pricilla. Romans 16:1 list a woman Phoebe as servant(NKJV)/deaconess(amp).

    Paul also made statements like 1 Cor. 11:5..."But every woman who prays or prophesies.." in church!

    So should women teach/preach/prophesy in the church?
     
  2. SaggyWoman

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    Wemon preachers?
     
  3. DHK

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    No, they are to keep silent.
    Their ministry is among other women and to children.
    They are told that they may not teach men or have authority over a man, and therefore they must be silent in the churches.
     
  4. SaggyWoman

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    Yes, I think women should not speak in churches.
     
  5. awaken

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    How do you reconcile Acts 21:19 and 1 Cor. 11:5?
     
  6. awaken

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    Seems to me that there is a contradiction of wemon keeping silent and then Paul instructs in 1 Cor. 11:5 how she should pray and prophesy.
     
  7. SaggyWoman

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    She doesn't have to pray or prophesy at church. She can do it in the streets. She can do it at the Bema Seat. She can go to the temple outer court and do it. But not at church. Nope.
     
  8. awaken

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    So you believe that the gifts can be used outside the church? Interesting! Some here believe they are just for the church assembly.

    Wonder why wemon are aloud to teach/prophesy outside the church and not in the church?

    I have researched some of the Jewish traditions concerning men and wemon, back then they were and still are seperated. THey even pray on on separate sides of the Western Wall. The men on the left and the women on the right.
     
  9. SaggyWoman

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    What are Wemon, anyway?
     
  10. SaggyWoman

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    If you have the gift of evangelism, you don't use it in the church. They should be saved there.....
     
  11. awaken

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    Sorry..Women..
     
  12. awaken

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    "Let the woman keep silent" passage, Paul also said "And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home" (1 Cor. 14:35). So are the women not to learn at church either?

    In the Jewish culture, at the temple there was a court of the women where the women were permitted to wtch the procedures of the temple, and there was also a Gentile partition restricting Gentiles from entering past a certain point. In the synagogues men st on the main floor, and the women were permitted in the balconies.

    Many that I have discussed this with tell me that the passage on women keeping silent was not related to praying or prophesying, but it was written to prevent the occurrence that when a speaker was speaking, the women sitting in a separate area would not disrupt the service by asking their husbands for futher explanations right then, thus creating confusion. So if this is true...then the context is not to keep silent as for as prophesying..but it was discipline during a religious service.

    Another area of research led me to study out the words "speak" and "speaking"..they are laleo and lego in Greek.
     
  13. DHK

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    Corinth was in Greece, not Israel. It was a pagan culture not a Jewish culture.

    The church in Corinth started in the synagogue but didn't last very long there:
    Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
    7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
    --It soon moved to a house near the synagogue. And from there, we are not told.
    Acts 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
    --The only Temple in existence was in Jerusalem of course.
    Let not a woman have authority over a man.
    Let not a woman teach a man.
    That is not just discipline.
    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    --Fairly strong words. The next verse is even stronger:

    1 Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    --Do you get that? It is a shame for a woman to speak in the church!
    That simply makes Paul's point all the stronger.
    He means "shut up!"
     
  14. Thomas Helwys

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    Yes, they should, if they are given the gift.

    This will put me at odds with many here, but this is basically a fundamentalist forum, and I am not that.
     
  15. Salty

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    :laugh: :laugh: okay, now what is the puch line
     
  16. SaggyWoman

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    Yep. They should use the gift if givem it.

    But not at church. Shut up at church. Preach everywhere else.
     
  17. salzer mtn

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    I agree that woman should not teach men but Anne Graham Lotz seems to have more of a nack for preaching than brother Franklin.:sleeping_2:
     
  18. Jerome

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    John Calvin, Institutes IV.10.29-30:

    "the hours set apart for public prayer, sermon, and solemn services; during sermon, quiet and silence, fixed places, singing of hymns, days set apart for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper, the prohibition of Paul against women teaching in the Church, and such like. . . .Let us take, for example, the bending of the knee which is made in public prayer. It is asked, whether this is a human tradition, which any one is at liberty to repudiate or neglect? I say, that it is human, and that at the same time it is divine. It is of God, inasmuch as it is a part of that decency, the care and observance of which is recommended by the apostle; and it is of men, inasmuch as it specially determines what was indicated in general, rather than expounded. From this one example, we may judge what is to be thought of the whole class—viz. that the whole sum of righteousness, and all the parts of divine worship, and everything necessary to salvation, the Lord has faithfully comprehended, and clearly unfolded, in his sacred oracles, so that in them he alone is the only Master to be heard. But as in external discipline and ceremonies, he has not been pleased to prescribe every particular that we ought to observe (he foresaw that this depended on the nature of the times, and that one form would not suit all ages), in them we must have recourse to the general rules which he has given, employing them to test whatever the necessity of the Church may require to be enjoined for order and decency. Lastly, as he has not delivered any express command, because things of this nature are not necessary to salvation, and, for the edification of the Church, should be accommodated to the varying circumstances of each age and nation, it will be proper, as the interest of the Church may require, to change and abrogate the old, as well as to introduce new forms. I confess, indeed, that we are not to innovate rashly or incessantly, or for trivial causes. Charity is the best judge of what tends to hurt or to edify: if we allow her to be guide, all things will be safe.
    Things which have been appointed according to this rule, it is the duty of the Christian people to observe with a free conscience indeed, and without superstition, but also with a pious and ready inclination to obey. They are not to hold them in contempt, nor pass them by with careless indifference, far less openly to violate them in pride and contumacy. You will ask, What liberty of conscience will there be in such cautious observances? Nay, this liberty will admirably appear when we shall hold that these are not fixed and perpetual obligations to which we are astricted, but external rudiments for human infirmity, which, though we do not all need, we, however, all use, because we are bound to cherish mutual charity towards each other. This we may recognise in the examples given above. What? Is religion placed in a woman’s bonnet, so that it is unlawful for her to go out with her head uncovered? Is her silence fixed by a decree which cannot be violated without the greatest wickedness? Is there any mystery in bending the knee, or in burying a dead body, which cannot be omitted without a crime? By no means. For should a woman require to make such haste in assisting a neighbour that she has not time to cover her head, she sins not in running out with her head uncovered. And there are some occasions on which it is not less seasonable for her to speak than on others to be silent. Nothing, moreover, forbids him who, from disease, cannot bend his knees, to pray standing. In fine, it is better to bury a dead man quickly, than from want of grave-clothes, or the absence of those who should attend the funeral, to wait till it rot away unburied. Nevertheless, in those matters the custom and institutions of the country, in short, humanity and the rules of modesty itself, declare what is to be done or avoided."
     
  19. awaken

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    THe word laleo refers to the ability or use of the organs of speech, giving a sound, utterance, or expressing words with your voice. Lego means to speak in the sense of declaring an intelligible message.

    Laleo emphasizes the outward form of speech, and lego refers to the substance and meaning of what has been spoken. Laleo refers to the act of speaking, while lego declares what the speaker is actually says.

    Laleo is also used for the sounds made by birds, insects, bees and even the sound of a trumpet, thunder, voice of the dragon speaking (Rev. 13:11), voice given to the image of the beast. THe word was also used when infants would jabber before they could articulate words. THe root word for laleo is las, illustrating the effort of a child to make its first sound.

    I bored you with all that to say...
    To understand the context of a woman keeping silent, Paul does not use the word for a woman making intelligent words or speech, but the word for making sounds. It was about disturbing the service and not about teaching and instructing with an intelligent sound and voice. Obviously women were permitted to pray and prophesy and were active in ministry. (Acts 21:9; 18:24-28; Romans 16:1-6; 1 Cor. 11:5)
     
  20. Alive in Christ

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    I am very glad that at my evangelical baptist church we have got with Gods program, and have let our women speak, testify and teach in church.

    Praise the Lord.
     
    #20 Alive in Christ, Mar 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2013

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