Let's be specific, shall we...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Spinach, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. Spinach

    Spinach
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    There are 2 people, quite fictional, though probably do exist somewhere in the world. We'll call them "Jack" and "Jill".

    Jack recently took a job in your area. He's been looking for a church. He's zealous. He loves Jesus. He loves people. He visits your church. He walks in in a white t-shirt and blue jeans. He's covered in tattoos. He smells like cigarettes. How would he be treated in your church?

    Similarly, Jill. Her situation is the same, except she comes in in a pair of jeans and a revealing top. How would she be treated?

    What if they ever wanted to teach Sunday School? Go on visitation?
     
  2. sag38

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    How they are dressed when they first enter the church is not some much the consideration. I've experienced some finely dressed church people, conservative appearing to the core, who were wolves in disguise. To teach Sunday School a person needs to be tested for a significant period of time. At my church you cannot teach until you have been an active member for at least one year. And being that I am in charge of visitation, a new comer, no matter how he or she looks or is dressed on first appearance, is also going to have to prove his or her spiritual maturity and faithfulness. Actions speak much louder than first apperances.
     
  3. Spinach

    Spinach
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    What if they looked the same after a year?
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Jill's lack of modesty would be an issue since it is clearly unbiblical. I can't see her teaching Sunday or calling on people's homes while exposing herself.

    Hopefully a godly lady would advice to stop revealing her body. If nothing else for her own protection - you never know who is behind a closed door.
     
  5. Spinach

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    That answers one question. What about how she would be treated in general? What about Jack?
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    In our church they would be welcomed with open arms. If they gave testimony of salvation and were either baptised by immersion or submit to it they would be welcome as members.

    I would love to help Jack overcome a habit that is going to kill him. I would consider his testimony of smoking something that we would have to deal with before he taught Sunday School.
     
  7. Spinach

    Spinach
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    Thank you. I appreciate your answers.
     
  8. Spinach

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    I'm ashamed to say that the church of my youth would have asked them to leave. The church in the States where our mission is would do the same as CK4. The churches here would accept Jack just fine (he looks and smells like the average "Joe" here). Jill would get a tongue lashing by the other women. Her attire would not be allowed in the culture we minister to.
     
  9. abcgrad94

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    Our church would welcome both with open arms. Eventually, the modesty issue would have to be addressed before Jill could become a teacher and the smoking habit might need to be addressed as well. Maybe we'd ask that Jack not smoke on church property, especially as some of us have asthma.

    We would never ask someone to "lose weight" in order to teach a class, so why ask them to "stop smoking" before they are qualified to teach? The smoking is a touchy issue, so I'm not sure exactly how it should be handled.

    I think if Jack and Jill love the Lord and have lots of zeal, God will work in their hearts to refine them.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Hence 'stop smoking' was not included in this statement.

     
  11. abcgrad94

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    I appreciate that, C4K. I do know of churches who WOULD make the person stop smoking in order to teach. This happened with my mother when she was a new Christian. She smoked and wore revealing clothing, too.
     
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    At what point should the ladies of the church be allowed to instruct Jill about the Biblical admonitions regarding modesty? Should Jill be taught that whatever she does (or wears) should glorify God? Should she be taught that she does not want to do anything that will cause a brother or sister to stumble, even though she is free to do it?

    So, you might say, define modesty; define appropriate dress. I would venture to say that every single person on this board knows it when he/she sees it.

    Modesty, of course, involves more than just what we wear. It's an attitude. Peter, in his first letter, chapter 3, says as much:

    Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.







     
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    The church where I am now a member is far from perfect and I would admit that their response would not be all that I would want, but they would be welcomed with open arms, initially.

    This is North Carolina, lots of people smoke. That would not be an issue. His attire would not be noticed. His tattoos would also be overlooked, especially if he gave a good testimony. Any changes to his or her attire would probably come simply from them noticing that they were not dressed like everyone else rather than through any confrontation.

    Now if they wanted to teach Sunday School, that would be different. Where are they from? Who are their parents and where are they from? I don’t care how they were attired or smelled, if they did not have a local pedigree it could be many, many years before they would be allowed to teach Sunday School. Around here I don’t care if your wearing a suit and have a Seminary Degree (actually, both of those things would be counted against you) unless they know your Mama it ain’t happening. Of course on the flip side you could still be on parole and would be given a class if they had fond memories of your Grandmother.

    Wish I was exaggerating.
     
  14. Spinach

    Spinach
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    I completely understand.

    I've been to some wonderful churches in North Carolina. Actually my favorite preachers live there.
     
  15. abcgrad94

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    Around here it's the total opposite. Someone gets saved and comes to church for a few months, and the church wants to make them deacon, Sunday school teacher, trustee, and treasurer because none of them want to do the work. :tonofbricks:
     
  16. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
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    Oh for some moderation. :praying:

    I would not have thought that of WV. I would have thought your culture would have been more like ours.

    Around here an "immigrant worker" is anyone from Graham County. :laugh:
     
  17. donnA

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    We have a lot of different kinds of people in our church, they'd be treated like any other visitor.
    Right now they're only visitors, visitors don't teach Sunday school.
    In our church you have to live like a christian to serve there (this in no way means perfection, but attempting to live a christian lifestyle), although they encourage everyone to serve, they also encourage everyone to live like Christ.
    As we're new there I really couldn't tell you more.


    I agree, and I think it's like this at our church. I do know not just anyone is allowed to teach, they have to know you, and witness that you are Spiritually gifted as a teacher.

    All I see wrong is Jill likes to expose herself, not a Christ like attitude, a woman who loves the Lord does not dress like this. As long as she refuses to cover herself she should not be allowed to teach or visit.
     
  18. thegospelgeek

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    Like most others our church would welcome them with open arms as visitors. We would expect the Holy Spirit to bring conviction if they were unsaved and if they professed Christ as savior the Holy Spirit would be expected to address their appearance. I don't think anyone would tell Jill how to dress but of course that would depend on how revealing the clothes are. If it presented a major distraction something would eventually be said.

    However this does not mean that the sermons would not ruffle some feathers. The pastor and I (Asst. Pastor) will both preach where the Spirit leads us and the messages do hit home from time to time for just about everybody if you attend long enough, myself included.
     
  19. JustChristian

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    The first situation happened in my last church. This guy named "Harley" came to the church in blue jeans and a cut off denim jacket with a Harley Davidson insignia on the back. He had a beard. That church (American Baptist) was in many ways very traditional (red brick with a silver cross on top of the belfry and had been meeting for 150 years) but was also very friendly and supportive of strangers. He was accepted and he and his wife joined the church. It turned out that he had a ministry for street people in a nearby inner city.
     
  20. Marcia

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    I pretty much agree with this. If it seems they are believers, then give them time for the Holy Spirit to convict. I see the revealing clothes as more of an issue than the smoking for several reasons.

    However, as I posted on the smoking thread, I think to be a pastor, deacon, or teacher, you need to be a good role model and therefore, heavy or regular smoking is not good (esp. if you teach young people or children).
     

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