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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Amy.G, Dec 7, 2009.
According to the Catholic Church purgatory is scriptural.
How do Catholics defend such a thing?
Clicking yoru link:
This statement is clear enough to tell even the casual reader that this place they call purgatory is a place of punishment over sin that has not been paid in full. Their sins still require a more full satisfaction.
Bible believers will find this offensive because we understand the complete satisfaction that God the Father made in the blood and sacrifice of Christ Jesus.
To make the statement like that website said, is to say that the blood of Christ which was offered and accepted by God the Father, did not fully expiate the sins of those for whom it was shed.
Yes. And it makes me sick.
Questioned. I accepted Jesus into my life when I was 15. Yet I still struggle with sin and have sinned. I still have a propensity towards sin. Why?
Either the blood of Christ removes our sin or it doesn't. There is no partial salvation. I cannot work my sin off or good deed my way to heaven.
When Jesus said "it is finished" then it IS finished.
There is also absolutely NO scriptural basis for the teaching of Purgatory.
You "accepted Jesus into your life"??? What, exactly does that mean?
Jesus accepted my sorry butt into His life 15 years ago. And I still struggle with sin too and have sinned. I do not, however, have the same prope3nsity towards sin. Why?
Because I have been born from above. I ahve been re-created by God. But all sin, that is, this flesh wherein sin still dwells, has not been removed..yet. lol I am not dead!
But I have the Holy Spirit living in me. God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have made their Home in me. And the Spirit is set against the desires of my flesh so I don't do the things I wish.
In fact, I cannot make a lifestyle of sin again because I am born from above.
I could go on, but you get the point.
I still have the propensity not in the same manner as before and my life has improved. But here is the thing. Isn't Christ finished work sufficient enough for me to be free from sin entirely? Why do I and others still struggle with sin?
this time I mean that by this I asked Jesus to come into my life and be lord of it. My life did change but sin is still an issue though be it not what it was. "accepted Jesus into my life" is pretty clear what I meant.
You should ask a question that could have more than one answer.
What is someone going to say? No, Christ's finished work is not sufficient.
Where in the Bible does it teach you that God's intent was to save you in this life to such an extent that you lived sinless?
If Christ's death on the cross did not cover all of our sins, then He died in vain. However Hebrews 7 tells us that Christ "sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself." So why do we still need to do more sacrifices for sin?
How is it a non sequiter?
Really? Where is that in the Bible? How nice of you that you asked Jesus to "come into your life and be lord (sic) of it".
Again with the "accepting Jesus" idea. I've never understood where this silliness came from, as though Jesus Christ, Soveriegn God of the Universe, is waiting for your acceptance, like a fat girl waiting in vain for the captain of the football team to call and ask her to the prom at the last minute.
Jesus is your Lord whether you ask Him to be or not.
Yes, I'm afraid it is.
When you say that you accept someone or something, that means that you accept them on your terms. That's why the Bible never says
that we accept Jesus, but that Jesus accepts us.
No, I really can't because this is the question of the Catholic. (I have an answer BTW) The Catholic resolves the issue by sanctification being a process which he/she calls theosis which clearly is still not complete when we die. So what happens if you die with out the mind of Christ and your process of Sanctification isn't complete? do you automatically become perfect or does this process continue until its perfect completion which is through Purgatory. If for instance you stuggle with anger and you still struggle with anger when you die can you still be ushered into the Kingdom of heaven or must you complete sanctification until you can? In a way its like a brainwashing where all the stuff from here is processed out until we have a christ like mind with which to enter heaven. This is the Catholic solution.
That's why its a non sequitur because its an opportunity for you to question my salvation. I have submitted to Christ his lordship. But that doesn't mean I still don't stuggle with sin. Are you saying you don't? And note I'm just trying to keep it simple to make the point.
That doesn't really resolve the issue does it? I am talking about two different things, justification and sanctification. The papacy blurs the two. The Bible does not.
God is not going to accept me into heaven on the basis of the process of sanctification. He will accept me into heaven on the basis of Christ righteousness being given to me.
So how do you resolve that you still have an incomplete christ like mind when you die?
But you're the one who made it an issue. You're the one using language that demonstrates a false understanding of salvation.
But the Bible says that even the Devil and his angels will submit to Christ's Lordship. Are they saved?
What is there to resolve? The Bible says that putting on the mind of Christ is a long process.
And my point is proven.
Thats exaclty it. So the Catholic look at purgatory as part of that process and when its complete you enter heaven.