Let's discuss the differing views of Biblical Election

Any of us who believe the doctrines of grace are fine with however God has chosen to bring His decree to pass.

The scriptures teaches a multitude are saved,and another multitude...not a few...will be lost....

Those who do not believe in the biblical doctrine of election the same way. tend to speak of it in negative or evil terms unlike the Apostles ,or biblical writers did. They thanked and praised God for it.

Most times I see this used as P4t ,jbh28 and others have said...is a futile attempt to diminish the strength of this very biblical teaching.

I have heard it portrayed as calvinists believe they are in an exclusive little pre-selected country club....and they delight that they are elected.....while they take delight in masses of fallen humanity being reprobated dying in sins and going on to second death at the white throne judgement.

Some have very ignorantly posted these ideas here on BB.This shows a lack of study,and a lack of proper respect of scripture.

What seems like "cold hard facts " to you.....does not seem that way to us. We take great comfort in God's electing love.

Moses,jeremiah, paul delighted in God's electing love...all in heaven do also rev19...

So where do you see "calvinists" who see it as cold hard facts???

 

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

Hello Mb,
Actually they do have to do with election. Those given as the the seed of Abraham are elected before time and given to THE ELECT Seed, The Servant of the Lord ...in a Covenant of Redemption.

That Jesus has already told us that multitudes perish in unbelief,Mt7....Mt25

Why would you or anyone else consider...or post such an absurdity that ALL MEN are chosen?

Do you understand the election of individuals is a revealed truth?

Do you understand the covenant of grace?

 

SKAN.
Here is why you always error on these topics;

MOST?

No my friend...it is not ...most...it is ALL do not believe you...ALL.....

God saves from among all sinners.those he elects...He does not have to elect any....but For His perfect and righteous judgement, He elects from all fallen sinners a multitude who He makes willing to save...

You are always resisting this truth.....you do not like that God is the one who Elects....you would prefer man to elect himself.
We are happy with the fact that God is God...and not us.

 

The Doctrine of Grace, or Sovereign Election if you prefer, magnifies the Grace of God and that should be good enough for all of us!

 

:thumbs:

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

I moved on from post 21 on down

 

That is undoubtedly true and is one good reason why I am not Eastern Orthodox.

No. This is an unfortunate confusion of the Old and New Covenants. In the Old Covenant, everyone born to an Israelite was included, but only a tiny number were actually saved (Isaiah 1:9 etc.). In the New Covenant, everyone knows the Lord, and that knowledge comes to each person individually. 'Unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God' (John 3:3). Yes, Peter talks about a 'Nation of priests,' but he is not talking about an ethnic nation, but of believers, and each one comes to belief himself as God opens his heart (Acts 16:14).

No. 'I will take you one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion' (Jer 3:14). Notice that these people do not take themselves to Zion; the Lord takes them there.

I absolutely agree that God has not predetermined a 'select few.' He has predetermined a select many, a great throng that no man can number, as many as the dust of the earth (Gen 28:14). If He did not select, then there would be none saved, because 'There is none who understands; there is none who seeks God. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no not one......There is no fear of God before their eyes.' What stops people being saved is not election, but their own wickedly hard hearts. If there was only one person in heaven, God would still be to be praised for His mercy.

Certainly. You too, please.

Steve

 

Well said:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Exactly, that that's what is being done. You are making an attack against the debater. Again, since neither of us have an issue over the amount of people, it is only being used as an attack. If it was really an argument, it would be kinda strange since you believe the same thing.

sure

So then why do you bring it up? The only option is as an attack against someone else since you believe the same thing. Also, "few" is relative to the context. When compared to the total of people vs total saved, then few. But the word "many" is used in Scripture too to refer to those that get saved.

It's because, as I already stated, you believe the very same thing! So to bring it up as an argument is a form of an attack. It's the only reason that you and anyone else brings it up. You are attempting to make Calvinism to look like they teach that God is mean by only selecting a few.

Now, we also have to remember that God wasn't obligated to save anyone. So even if God only saved one person, it would still be the great act of mercy. Man deserves hell, not heaven. So out of the 100 people, all deserve hell. If God only chooses 15 people, they didn't deserve it.

Also remember that both Calvinist and non-Calvinist like you believe that people will go to hell because they are a sinner that has rejected God's grace. We both agree that God knew this from the beginning and elected to not save that person anyway.

 

Anyone wanting to learn about election in scripture read here;
http://www.founders.org/library/dagg_vol1/bk7c4.html#sec1

http://www.founders.org/library/boyce1/abstract.pdf

 

Yes, it definitely is an attack against the debater as jhb28 so correctly asserts.

It is definitely ad hominem and anti-cal based.

Im not going to sit here and pretend it isn't what it so obviously is.

 

Very well said!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Why not let BB calvinists post their own verses.We do not need you to tell us what we believe, or what verses we use.:thumbsup:

Your anologies are most always flawed, so no one wants to respond to them.

We do not believe that either. We believe in God's grace and mercy as expressed many times in scripture...

No,,,according to you and your negative view of God...not according to Calvinism. Show where any of us say this.....you cannot help express yourself in these terms....again no one is asking you to give your mistaken view of what calvinism is.
Is it possible that a calvinist here or there might have an opinion that less will be saved, than perish....sure.....but that does not of necessity speak for all or most calvinists.
You keep stating it as you think it elevates your view....but your view is biblically flawed, inconsistent, and man centered......so again we do not accept your premise.:thumbsup:

 

Of course it is. If God did not elect an individual according to His own will, the only will left is the will of the elected one. God then provided salvation for those who will believe. That's the election of a quality. You can argue that two plus two doesn't equal four, but that doesn't change the facts.

If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does it have? It only has four. Calling the dog's tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Transferring the term election to things it doesn't describe doesn't make the concept election.

 

Not at all, Arminianism is laden with error, and is an INCORRECT view. The romanticism of arminians and non-cals to believe somehow that "non-elect" can also be saved is rebellious against solid truth, and one glaring error held by these.

Another obviously is that they believe Cals believe in only a "select few" when Cals ACTUALLY believe in a select multitude beyond number, or, innumerable.

To say otherwise is to misrepresent these gracious brothers beliefs which is what is taking place.