Letter from Ingrid

Thanks Tim for being kind. I don't know if it's "good" but I sure try to incorporate as much theology and doctrine as possible.

 

I have no patience with people who complain, especially annonymously, and are not willing to take any steps to improve the situation. If she loves this church, even with all the problems, then why not suggest to her Pastor some ideas that might improve her experience and maybe the experience of others, as well. Why not find a recording of a song she likes, and give the church a copy? Why not get to know the couple rubbing up on eachother? Why not take a look at her own dress, and see where she might improve on that? I know that whenever I have an idea, I'll tell my Pastor. If nothing else, it puts a smile on his face! It would be better than silently looking down her nose at those around her!

love,

Sopranette

 

I mostly agree with Ingrid. (Although when we lived in Wyoming, formal wear WAS your jeans that had no holes.)

But I would add this: if the casual, laid back, CCM type church is your scene, and IF THE MAJORITY OF TH CHURCH wants it, so be it. I can go elsewhere.

What has really torqued my sputter valve is twice having churches vote on this issue, having the people vote (yep, I know the count first hand) to stick to traditional services, and then having the pastor or song leader announce the following week "nobody wants traditional, everybody wants the new way." HOGWASH!

End rant.

 

Here's the thing. IMHO.

God couldn't care less what clothes we wear. Or the type music we sing, or whatever other thing people argue about. He is interested in our HEARTS. I am in perfect fellowship with God while wearing yucky clothes while cleaning the house and listening to Casting Crowns because of what is in my heart.

What we should be focusing on is our respect and love for one another. We should always be aware of how our behavior affects those around us, which is why I say we should examine our own hearts.

I personally do not like it when women wear strapless sundresses to church and sit in front of my husband. I'v only seen one person in our church do this, but it was enough. If that woman had thought about how her bare back might affect the men sitting behind her and genuinely desired not to offend anyone, she wouldn't have worn it. No law required, just the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Before you call me a pharisee, people in our church wear all sorts of clothing from suits and ties to overalls. Dress up, dress down, I couldn't care less. But think about why you do what you do, that is all I'm saying. As far as the guy that wears the cow poop caked boots to church, that's fine. Just take them off outside the door and come inside in your sock feet!

 

Sounds to me like Michal when she saw David dancing in the street before Jehovah. 2Samual 6:14-23

 

So...this happens in every church that has a contemporary service? Most A few? So many of your posts on this issue paint with an extremely broad brush...And interestingly enough...you seem to be able to define who the "bad guys" are, even if it pertains to a church you've never attended, with regards to ministries you don't have a part in.....I find that interesting, and puzzling.

I can only speak with authority as it relates to my church. And I can say without reservation that your description couldn't be further from the truth in my church.

 

Our pastor and minister of music have say over how those leading worship dress. For our Wednesday night services, I fill that role.

They have on one occasion asked someone to make a wardrobe change.

I have done so on two occasions. But before anybody leads worship on a regular basis (that is, if we're talking more than leading a prayer or reading a Scripture--if we're talking consistent and regular worship leadership--playing an instrument, giving a message, leading or participating in a drama team, etc.,) they are required to undergo a "worship leader 101" course, and we talk about some expectations we as a church have of our leaders...and also some spiritual foundations that are applicable.

 

We disagree on that. There has always been the "role" of a "worship leader." I'm a bit different than some, in that we refer to all in our church who take part in leading our congregation in corporate worship as "worship leaders." So, we refer to our choirs as "worship leaders."

Strictly speaking....there is no Biblical term "music minister;" however, we all know what the role is. Semantics.

Same thing, IMO.

My theory is that since the term "worship leader" or "worship pastor" (and there's a few others) might be used in churches that utilize more modern stuff...it might be a bit of a sore spot for folks (but even using the same reasoning they aren't bothered by "music minister.")

No worries here to me...it's describing a role that is Biblical.

 

I can't wear sandals, JW. Everyone will see I use foot powder so heavily I'll leave trails even a bloodhound with severe cold can follow. lol.

Seriously, folks, I agree with the poster who said that the bottomline for Ingrid is that she should leave and find herself a church that worships the same way she is convicted worship should be, and where people dress up but are dressed down. There are still a lot of them around. And there are still a lot, even among younger folks who will agree with her, and there are those among the older crowds who will disagree with her (could they have been the Jesus people of the 60's ?).

 

What is it about the "oldest way is the best way" that is so attractive? Aaahh, I think I know....comfort.

While they try and guilt others by accusing them of remaining comfortable, they are stuck in thinking that the way they are most comfortable is the only right way.

 

Well I guess it is a good thing that we do not go to the same church. I have 1 pair of shoes, and they are now two years old, so you can imagine that they are probalby not the best looking. Even when they are clean, someone may question such and make a deal of it, but you know what I do not care. I also often wear jeans to church, any I only have two pair, one of which have been patched and are definitely not what you would consider proper church attire,,but you know what I do not care, nor do I think that God cares either.

I agree that there often comes the time when many people deliberetly defy what is right, just for the sake of it, but what is more said are the people who judge others for simply what they wear.

Ingrid, has some serious problems, and is obviously quite the judgmental person, and no matter what any one did, would not be pleasing to her. What a sad life it must be never to be able to find enjoyment in one's surroundings. If she is not happy with here surroundings, then she needs to pack her bags.

We had a visiting pastor a couple of weeks ago, and he started talking about -contemporary music and how some one had compared it to 7-11...same seven words every 11 lines. That night as we were singing our usual old faithful hymns (which I adore) it also was a 7-11, go figure. Just because one person does not like it does not make it wrong.

There are good songs in every type of music, as well as bad. My grandparents would have a fit today if they were confronted with the music I like, and I am quite sure that I will be the same way when my grandkids come along. hey alot of the music my kids like today, makes me curl.

 

I am confused a little.... You keep saying something about should Ingrid "sit there and take it" what is the *it* exactly? Are people harassing her in church? I have re-read the posts and all I see is descriptions upon others church attire and assumptions based upon that. Nothing talking of actual behavior
Hippie looking people here tend to be real easy going, can't see anyone complaining about them. When the drums start, maybe just getting up and walking to the back of the church, or even outside until it ends might be in order.

 

I'm beginning to think someone here may have written the letter themselves and posted it as "Ingrid." JD sure seems to have an awful lot of insight into what she was thinking, or what she meant by this and such. Or maybe he knows her personally and has discussed this ALOT with her?

 

You could refer her to the other thread about "grace robbers" :tear: