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Letter to President Bush from Jim Vineyard

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Pastor_Bob, Aug 17, 2005.

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  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    August 16, 2005



    Dear Mr. Bush:

    Sir, Mr. Webster defined tyranny as: 1] the exercise of power over subjects and others with rigor not authorized by law or justice, or not requisite for the purpose of government. Hence tyranny is often synonymous with cruelty and oppression. 2] unresisted or cruel power.

    Mr. President, he defined a tyrant as a ruler who exercises unlawful authority, or lawful authority in an unlawful manner, or the demand of unreasonable services; imposes burdens and hardships on those under his control, which law and humanity do not authorize.

    Sir, in my humble opinion, you and Mr. Sharon have entered into “the realm of tyrannical rule” by imposing this “disengagement–deportation of Jews by Jews” on the Israelis kicking them out from their homes, jobs, farms, lives, synagogues, and cemeteries.

    Sir, there was “no way” that the government of Israel could have come up with this idea on their own. Our research on Condi Rice’s employment of Flynt Leverett through the Jim Baker Public Policy Institute to write the “ROAD MAP” shows otherwise.

    Sir, this morning I spoke with Mrs. Rachel Saperstein by phone in Newe DeQalim. They are packing. They are being “deported” tomorrow. Mr. Bush, in the 65-plus years I have lived, I have never been ashamed to be an American. I am now!

    Sir, this morning, I spoke with Gadi Eshel in Homesh. They (1,500 people) are still resisting the deportation. None of these events will bring peace between the Palestinians and Jews. Rather, it is a ruler exercising power to oppress by injustice and cruel punishment and demand unreasonable actions by imposing hardships and burdens on those under Sharon’s control which “law and humanity” do not authorize.

    Sir, King George III and Adolph himself would most definitely be proud of you, USA President George W. Bush. But, Sir, Presidents George Washington, Jefferson, and founding fathers Franklin, Henry, and others are probably all “rolling over in their graves” at the thought of the 2005 USA President exercising power unjustly and oppressing the “APPLE OF GOD’S EYE” by bringing and demanding this burden, hardship, and unreasonable service with the “THREAT OF CRUEL PUNISHMENT” for those who do not submit.

    Sir, America is not only addicted to drugs, sensuality, and the sex lifestyle, but it is also addicted TO ARAB OIL. The Arabs are holding us hostage for the “ransom of their oil.”

    And, it would greatly interest us “common people” (Christian-Zionists) to know if you, our President, and Condi and the Carlyle Group are holding hostage “AID TO ISRAEL” for the ransom of American interests?

    Sir, why the duplicity and double standard? If uprooting these dear people from their homes, jobs, and lives will really bring about peace between the Palestinians and Jews, then, Mr. Bush, you should cede Manhattan to Al Qaeda.

    Sir, if you really believe that uprooting these people will bring peace, then you need cede land from Iraq and Afghanistan to Iran to appease the Iranians and to keep them from developing weapons of mass destruction.

    Sir, last week, you said on TV, “We are not ‘ruling out force’ on Iran!” (Yes, Sir, I am for the force.) But, I also see the “inconsistency” between that and the “forced actions” the Road Map has put on the Israelis.

    And, Sir, while you are at all that “ceding” you can give South Korea to the North.

    In June, while visiting Israel, I was staying in Moshe Saperstein’s lovely home in Newe DeQalim in the Gush Katif. In an interview on TV, we watched you say (in so many words), “Sometimes people have to do something hard.”

    Mr. Jim Baker, Ms. Rice, and you, Sir, are “sowing to the wind.” America is going to “reap” the “whirlwind” – Hosea 8:7. The “hard” that you are imposing on these dear people is going to be “nothing” like the “hard” you, America, my kids, my grandkids, and the people I pastor are going to “have to reap” at the LORD GOD OF ISRAEL’S HANDS.

    God told Moses in Exodus 22 that if a man steal an ox or sheep and kill it or sell it, that he shall restore fivefold for the ox and fourfold for the sheep. If the theft be found in his hand (verse 4), then he shall restore double.

    After his trusting of the Jewish Messiah in the Christian New Testament, Zacchaeus the tax collector told the LORD JESUS (Luke 19:8), “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.”

    Sir, with all due respect, You, Mr. Baker, Ms. Rice, (and other Republican uppity-ups) had better start looking at your check books and planning on passing along all that (Carlyle Group) “Saudi Oil and Arms” money to compensate what “you and they” are taking from these dear Jewish people.

    And, if you literally interpret Luke 19:8, it will be to a “fourfold” degree!

    Sir, when you were Governor of Texas (I am a poor boy from the Panhandle.), there was a woman on the Texas death row. All the “non-capital punishment” crowd was calling for you to grant clemency.

    On national TV, you said that you, as Governor, were obligated to carry out her execution.

    What you best remember now, Sir, is the balloon has gone up on YOUR ROAD MAP PEACE VISION in Israel. The LORD GOD OF ISRAEL will hold you, Baker, Rice, and all the Carlyle Group folks to the “same accounting” for the loss of each and every innocent Israeli life that this foolishness now causes.

    The LORD GOD OF ISRAEL IS GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR THOSE CARLYLE GROUP CHECKS.

    An American Christian with His Head held low,

    Jim Vineyard
    Pastor - Windsor Hills Baptist Church


    JAV:sgb
     
    #1 Pastor_Bob, Aug 17, 2005
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    That is really a silly, silly letter. The modern political State of Israel has no ties to the Old Testament nation of Israel except that the population of each is/was mainly Jews.

    I really get tired of people inappropriately jumping on any move that doesn't agree with their form of theology or eschatology and claiming that God is going to do something bad to these United States because of some policy in the modern, mostly unrepentant political State of Israel. I think it is downright silly to think that our support or non-support of a group of people who have, for the most part, refused to come to Jesus in repentance and faith and refuse to acknowledge Him as the Son of God is going to cause blessing or judgment on these United States by God.

    By the way, the Israeli people through their goverment voted to withdraw from Gaza. It wasn't imposed on them. I really get tired of these stupid conspiracy theories being posted on this board. People smart enough to use a computer should have better sense than to post such tripe.
     
    #2 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  3. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    "By the way, the Israeli people through their goverment voted to withdraw from Gaza. It wasn't imposed on them. "

    "Come on! ..perhaps not
    imposed. Everybody knows in politics their are
    back channels and negotiations with major players
    and in this case the bush admin to influence the
    playing field...to ignore that political input
    and pressure is to be devoid of reality.

    "The modern political State of Israel has no ties to the Old Testament nation of Israel except that the population of each is/was mainly Jews."
    (Oh boy! are you sure you want to say this?)

    --------------------------------------------------
    The modern State of Israel is a miracle brought
    about by God...a real and true miracle that was
    witnessed by all.


    And of course the person who posted the above
    can post this totally relevant and important
    debate for all who beleive the scriptures.

    I think it is totally relevant to segue the
    administration because if it came down to who
    they would pick..Saudia Arabia or Israel I think
    it would be the vipers in Saudi Arabia.imho

    Once Condi leaves office that name goes right
    back on that super tanker that goes in and out
    of the Straights of Hormuz. ;)
     
    #3 ASLANSPAL, Aug 17, 2005
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    KenH

    I wholeheartedly agree with your response. Sadly there is a group within the Christian faith who are still confused about the relationship of God and the Jews.

    These people would have us believe that God would punish the "true believers" if they do not side with the Jews in all things. That is ridiculuous.

    Until the Jews are saved through the blood of Jesus Christ their relationship to God is the same as that of any unbeliever.
     
    #4 OldRegular, Aug 17, 2005
  5. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    For someone to make that statement obviously shows they don't know much about the OT structure of the Nation of Israel. :rolleyes:

    Jews/Judah was only a part of the Nation of Israel.

    They also don't realize there are quite a few Christians who live in present day Israel. The pastor of the Baptist Church of Bethlehem is really having a financially hard time right now. He can't afford to send his children to a private school, so they must attend the Palestinian schools where they are taught Islam and how to do jihad and hate America and Israel.

    I'm sick of Muslim terrorist sympathizers - especially the ones at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
     
    #5 LadyEagle, Aug 17, 2005
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes, I know. Please forgive me for not being more precise.

    2) I know that. But you must admit that the vast majority of Jews in the modern political State of Israel reject Jesus as being the Son of God and have not come to Him in repentance and faith. They are no better off spiritually than a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Hindu or an atheist.
     
    #6 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Are we now discussing a spiritual issue regarding the Jewish people or Nation of Israel? I thought the OP letter was in reference to America, thanks to the Bush Administration, turning her back on the Nation of Israel, a democracy, and giving away land to terrorists. Yes, America will pay dearly for some of the actions of this President. Clinton never even went this far.
     
    #7 LadyEagle, Aug 17, 2005
  8. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    Reject! Reject? in other words you have decided this for them...they have until the day they
    die KenH :rolleyes: A lot of things could happen
    that could cause them to take that extra step
    in the process ..they are already ahead of the
    curve..I am more optimistic than cynical in this.

    Whoa! there KenH of course they are better off
    than a Muslim or Buddhist and even an Athiest.
    Like I said they are a head of the curve when it
    comes to understanding God and His attributes.
    You are giving them very little credit in what
    they do know.
     
    #8 ASLANSPAL, Aug 17, 2005
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Why?
     
    #9 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Until such a person comes to Jesus in repentance and faith he is certainly not better off than another person who has not yet come to Jesus in repentance and faith as both are separated from the cleansing blood of Christ Jesus.
     
    #10 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Shall I make the list again?

    Agreed! [​IMG]

    Romans Chapter 11. [​IMG]
     
    #11 LadyEagle, Aug 17, 2005
  12. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    Ken this is what you said perhaps you were not
    specific enough?

    "They are no better off spiritually "

    That is what you said KenH and then put them
    in the same field spiritually than an atheist

    your mess up not mine.

    Of course they are more spiritually down the
    the road or the process than an atheist..I am
    more optimistic and less cynical than you. imho
     
    #12 ASLANSPAL, Aug 17, 2005
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    LE and ASLANSPAL, if a Jew dies without having come to Jesus in repentance and faith, he goes to Hell just as a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or atheist who dies without coming to Jesus in repentance and faith. That you cannot deny and you know it.
     
    #13 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  14. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Sad, but true!!
     
    #14 just-want-peace, Aug 17, 2005
  15. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I'm looking for the point in relationship to the OP, Ken....searching....
     
    #15 LadyEagle, Aug 17, 2005
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    That is a ridiculous statement not worthy of a Christian! [​IMG] To say that President Bush is a Muslim terrorist sympathizer is flatly not true. You are in effect stating that he is deliberately sacrificing the lives of our soldiers in Iraq for no reason. Shame on you and may God forgive you for such hatred of a brother in Jesus Christ. [​IMG]
     
    #16 OldRegular, Aug 17, 2005
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I wonder, LE, if you believe the Bible when it says one, including Jews, can only be saved by coming to Jesus in repentance and faith.
     
    #17 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Spot on, OldRegular! [​IMG]

    Maybe LadyEagle could form a Bush bashing tag team with Cindy Sheehan. :rolleyes:
     
    #18 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    According to Scripture KenH is correct.

    John14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
     
    #19 OldRegular, Aug 17, 2005
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Acts 4:12 (ESV)
    And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

    Acts 20:21 (ESV)
    testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    #20 KenH, Aug 17, 2005
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