Liberal to Hyper....Where do I fit in?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pastor_Bob, Jul 18, 2002.

  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    I have been on the board for a few days now. I have read the terms "liberal," "moderate," "conservative," "legalistic," "Hyper-this and that." I am interested in what qualifies one to be placed in one of these catagories. Those who have read my posts have undoubtedly labeled me already. I am sincerely interested in hearing not only what you think I am but also where you would place yourself in this list.

    In short, here is what I am:
    1. I preach modest apparel for both men and women.
    2. I preach separation from the world and worldly activities. i.e. movies, dance, proms, water-parks etc...
    3. I preach that we should live holy lives before the Lord.
    4. I preach soulwinning and outreach of several methods.
    5. I preach against the modern boy-friend/girl-friend relationship.
    6. I preach parental involvement in the courting process.
    7. I preach from a KJV Bible and believe it to be the preserved Word of God.
    8. I preach confrontational evangelism as opposed to lifesyle evangelism only.
    9. I preach that the child of God should be noticeably different than the world in every area.
    10. I maintain standards for our Sunday School teachers and other church leaders.

    That is in a nutshell what I do here at this church. I am not interested at this time in arguing each point; I just want to learn where I would fit in the vast spectrum of labels.

    God Bless You,
    Pastor Bob
     
  2. Rev. Joshua

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    I would consider you an ultra-conservative fundamentalist. In fact, I don't personally know a single baptist minister who is as conservative as you are, and that includes my friends who are fundamentalists.

    Then again, I do travel in urban, ecumenical circles. For a little balance, are there any fundamentalists here whose positions are more conservative than those outlined?

    Joshua
     
  3. Headcoveredlady

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    Pastor bob,
    Just look to Jesus. From the list you mentioned sounds like you are trying to follow God's Word which is what we are supposed to be doing. I believe it is in Hebrews chapter five that tells us we are either mature or immature. I like those terms better. Immature Christians are those who cannot tell evil from good and maturing ones are those who can.

    HCL
     
  4. Farmer's Wife

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    I agree with HCL! Sounds Biblical to me. [​IMG] Here's another one to add to the list:

    11. It's the parent's Biblical responsibility to teach their own children.
     
  5. Clint Kritzer

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    Scriptural reference, please?
     
  6. Pastor_Bob

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    Scriptural reference, please?</font>[/QUOTE]Deut. 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
    5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
    6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
    7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children , and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
     
  7. Clint Kritzer

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    Yes, sir. That is the words of Moses to the Children of Israel before they passed into Canaan concerning religious laws. I concur that religious instruction should be rooted in the home. What about secular topics, however?

    And actually concerning religious education, even Christ Himself in Luke 3:41-50 left his family group in order to recieve education from the Temple elders. It's the only story we have of our Master's adolesence. So again I would ask for more Scriptural reference to back up the statement "It's the parent's Biblical responsibility to teach their own children."

    This is another case of something that seems at the whims of opinion, not Biblical instruction.
     
  8. Pastor_Bob

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    Let me give you some principles and the Scriptures I would base them on.

    1. The raising of children is delegated to parents by God
    Ps 127:3 "Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
    4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
    5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.(KJV)

    Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.(KJV)

    Nowhere in Scripture can a reference be found in which God has delegated to the state the authority to raise and educate children.

    2. Children still belong to God
    Eze 16:20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
    21 That thou hast slain my children , and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them? (KJV)

    3. God-mandated conditions for educating children

    Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. (KJV)

    Nurture involves loving, providing for, and carefully instructing them "in the Lord."
    Admonition is the same word as "discipline" and again must be "in the Lord."

    Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
    (KJV)

    4. God commands us to train our children's minds
    Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
    (KJV)

    Ps 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
    (KJV)

    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    (KJV)

    Pr 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
    (KJV)

    5. The influence of negative

    Lu 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
    (KJV)

    Who do you want your children to be like? You or a worldly teacher?

    1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. (KJV)

    Pr 13:20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed. (KJV)

    These are some biblical principles that we believe teach us that we have a God-given responsibility to teach our children in a way that would be pleasing to God.
     
  9. Clint Kritzer

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    My wife is a public school teacher. So is my next door neighbor and dozens of the people that attend my church. I went to a private Baptist Military School here in my hometown that has a long history with the Baptist of Virginia. Dozens of the instructors from that school attend my church. The Military Academy was founded by Willian Hatcher, a well known theologian and pastor here in Virginia in the 19th century.

    So you see, I raise this issue because most Christians, whether it be good or bad, have their children educated in public schools. The general attitude of some of the more conservative Baptist that condemns this practice, in my mind, is not founded in Scripture. Bear in mind, that the Old Testament Israel was a theocracy, so the religion WAS the government.

    I know you didn't want to debate point by point issues on this thread, but I will pretty much always ask for Biblical bases for most ideas I see presented here on the board. Much of the Scripture you provided requires a bit of contortion to reconcile it to public education, especially considering the amount of Christians in the public school system, at least in my area.

    If my kids turn out to be like my wife, I will be very proud to have such well liked, God fearing children.
     
  10. Clint Kritzer

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  11. GrannyGumbo

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    Thank the Lord there are still some preachers like we used to have!
     
  12. Ben Smith

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    Brethren,
    The Psalmist stated: "As arrows are in the had of a mighty man; so are the children of thy youth. Ps. 127:4
    1. A mighty man prepares his arrows, likewise WE prepare our children.
    2. A mighty man sparpens his arrows, likewise we "train up a child in the way he should go..." The phrase "train up" implies to sharpen or narrow.
    3. The mighty may puts the arrows in HIS quiver, likewise I don't put my children under the care of others who may not share my same interests.
    4. The mighty man plans for his arrows to hit the target, likewise I train MY children so that they will have a vision for God and a desire to obey His will.
     
  13. go2church

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    Bob
    We have talked before and I would consider you a rare ultra-conservative pastor as outlined by Josuha. Rare because you have so far, asked and answered questions in a dignified manner without torching anyone or condeming them to hell. For what it's worth.
     
  14. Clint Kritzer

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    I completely agree. Though I have disagreed with some of his post, Brother Bob has shown a great and rare gift for grace in his posting on some very hot topics. [​IMG]
     
  15. GrannyGumbo

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    How far is Kansas from here? (hee-hee)

    "Rare, Ultra Conservative, Fundamentalist"-COOL!!!
     
  16. latterrain77

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    Hi Clint. Some info on those elders you mentioned: John 8:44

    latterrain77
     
  17. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer
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    Hi Latterain -

    You cite one particular group of Jews but I do not see where they were Temple elders. The assembly spoken of in Luke 2 may have also consisted of leaders as cited in Luke 23:50, Luke 7:50, and Acts 5:34. Remember also that the disciples were "Jews that believed HIm."

    I am also not sure that the Pharisees were Levites that would have had charge of the Temple as originally designated by Moses and later established by Solomon. I may be wrong on this point.

    There is little doubt that Jesus had excellent training in the Scriptures. Christ left His Heavenly realm and became human with all the limitations inherent in that state. He had to be trained in the ways of Jewish Law in that He read in the synagogues. He also cited Old Testament Scripture often. I doubt that Mary nor Joseph could have given him this training.

    Samuel was educated away from home as well by Eli (1Samuel 3:1) as was his mother's desire. She knew that she was incapable of giving Samuel the knowledge he required to be a great man of God.
     
  18. Pastor_Bob

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    My wife is a public school teacher. So is my next door neighbor and dozens of the people that attend my church.

    So you see, I raise this issue because most Christians, whether it be good or bad, have their children educated in public schools.

    If my kids turn out to be like my wife, I will be very proud to have such well liked, God fearing children.
    [/QUOTE]

    I have the privilege of Pastoring three public school teachers. They are born again, Spirit-filled teachers. I thank God for them. They are doing a great job. We need more like them without a doubt.

    My concern is: What about the P.E. Teacher? What about the Music Teacher? What about the Basketball Coach? These may not know the Lord and could be an unnecessary negative influence.

    I am not "condemning" public education dogmatically; I realize that some Christian parents have no other alternative. What I am affirming is our biblical mandate to properly train up our children.

    My wife and I both graduated from Christian School and I went on to Bible college. The Lord has given us the opportunity to teach our children at home. That's our way. It may not be best for everyone but that is what we feel God would have us do.
     
  19. Pastor_Bob

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    I completely agree. Though I have disagreed with some of his post, Brother Bob has shown a great and rare gift for grace in his posting on some very hot topics. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you for the kind words. It should be a desire of each of us to fulfill Paul's admonition:
    Col. 4:6 "Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

    It is my belief that this applies to face-to-face conversation as well as written communication. Remember always, there very well may be a lost person who is reading our posts and replies. God help us if we "quench" the Holy Spirit's moving in their lives by our shortcomings.

    God Bless You.
     
  20. Farmer's Wife

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    Thank you, Pastor Bob, for your answer. Those were the same scriptures (in Deuteronomy) I was thinking about along with the book of Proverbs in which a father was instructing his son and then there's Timothy.

    Clint, I read Luke 2:41-50 (KJBible) and it seems to me that Jesus wasn't receiving his education but rather in verse 47 "And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers." It seems more like he was teaching them! In verse 46, it says that Jesus was asking them questions...that is how Jesus answered ALOT of questions in the Bible...not because He didn't know the answers.

    I know that there are saved people who are teachers in government schools. However, these teachers are required to teach the curiculum that has been written by worldly people with an unBiblical world-view. The children in these schools are indoctrinated for 8-10 hours a day with ideas of humanism, socialism, feminism, paganism, etc and it's hard for Christian parents to 'undo' the damage that has been done during that time. Not only are the students taught this through curiculum but they are also heavily influenced by the unsaved majority of their peers at school day in and out.

    This has been one of the biggest tools of satan to undermine Christian parents and to destroy the family. I pray that more God-fearing parents will wake up and realize this before it's too late.

    [ July 19, 2002, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Farmer's Wife ]
     

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