Liberal

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Streetsweeper, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. Streetsweeper

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    Could someone define what you mean by the term "Liberal"?

    It seems whenever there is a pet issue for someone on the forum that the term is brought out with an expectation that everyone will respond with gratuitious attacks on this mythical figure of derision.
     
  2. Winman

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    Liberal = Someone who's mind is so open that their brain fell out. :tongue3:
     
  3. Streetsweeper

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    Not particularly helpful.
    The opposite of this must be someone whose mind is so closed no knowledge can get in.

    Come on be a little serious. What is a sensible definition of 'liberalism' and why is liberalism so offensive to some people on this forum?
     
  4. OldRegular

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    A political liberal is one who believes that government is the answer to all mans needs, who believes that government has the right and duty to redistribute wealth, and has the right and duty to use whatever means necessary to achieve those goals. In my opinion the ultimate goal of liberal politicians is a totalitarian form of government!

    A so-called Christian liberal is one who is skeptical of anything the Bible teaches.

    A social liberal is one who believes in little or no moral restraint.

    The three are not necessarily synonymous but frequently are.
     
    #4 OldRegular, Jan 6, 2013
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  5. mont974x4

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    Politically it is someone who feels no obligation to this nations founding documents or principals.

    Religiously it is someone who feels no obligation to the Bible.

    In both cases they view the documents as "living" and their interpretation open to the whims of the popular opinion. Facts do not matter. Emotions do. Relativism rules. Personal responsibility is rejected.

    Where they differ:
    Religious liberals espouse the more subjective anything goes, all are god, and any road to God (if they even say He exists at all) are as good as any other. The Bible says what they want it to say.

    Political liberals look to the Government to solve their problems, even if it means denying any and all personal freedoms.

    They may blend from time to time. For example, in forcing clergy to perform gay weddings and limiting their speech.


    Why do I find it so distasteful? Because it is in direct opposition with everything I believe, everything I fought for (literally), and all that I hold dear as a Christian, a pastor, and an American.
     
    #5 mont974x4, Jan 6, 2013
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  6. Revmitchell

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    Liberalism is offensive because it is an evil that needs to be eradicated. Liberalism is contrary to the founding of this country. It destroys personal responsibility and works to steal rights from people. It accepts poor behavior as legitimate and has no conscience over the slaughter of unborn children. It doubts the word of God and destroys the gospel.


    That is why it is so offensive. Now...if you really and truly want to have a discussion about liberalism I will be glad to.
     
  7. Salty

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    The Bible directs us to be a liberal!!!

    II Cor 9:13
     
  8. OldRegular

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    2 Corinthians 9:13. Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

    Liberal above translates the Greek word meaning:singleness, i.e. (subjectively) sincerity (without dissimulation or self-seeking), or (objectively) generosity (copious bestowal):-- bountifulness, liberal(-ity), simplicity, singleness.

    That hardly describes the liberal of today!
     
  9. General Mung Beans

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    The problem is that liberalism is ideologically diverse. In the past century, liberalism basically meant support constitutional government (as opposed to absolute monarchies or other sorts of dictatorships) but in America at least liberalism basically means social liberalism (which is NOT socialism). I'm personally a conservative liberal incidentally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberal
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    For me at least it is offensive because it is the ultimate discussion ender on this forum.

    When a discussion gets to a certain point the final point so often is 'oh, you are a liberal, that explains everything.'

    The latest time I was called a liberal (first quote in the OP) it was because I don't swallow the birther theory.

    Despite the fact that the only supposed evidence of President Obama not being a natural born citizen is a reported comment by an ageing granny some have accepted it as fact. This despite the fact the the legislative and judicial branches of government have declared that he is legally the president.

    In this area I am a staunch conservative. The president is innocent until proven guilty. Fifty state governments have allowed him on to their ballots, Congress has accepted the electoral votes of those 50 states, and the Supreme Court does not consider the matter worth pursuing. And yet I am a liberal because I accept the legal constitutional process?

    I am a strict constructionist when it comes to the constitution and a literalist when it comes to the word of God, yet one especially vocal segment of this board consistently refer to me as a liberal (or even a socialist). I find these words offensive because they are simply not true.

    Supposed conservatives say they believe state and individual rights based on the 9th and 10th amendment, but they don't think states should be permitted to define marriage. They want the federal government to define marriage.

    Many conservatives say they believe in freedom of the press, but want opposing points of few squelched.

    Many conservatives say they believe in 'freedom of religion' but don't want every religion to be free, only those that agree with them.

    Many conservatives on this board supported President Obama's execution of a US citizen without the due process of law. I think impeachment proceedings should be started for this action.

    The word 'liberal' is now a red word for the extreme right to attack anyone who does not agree with their very narrow line of thinking. It has nothing to do with constitution or the Bible. It is based on people's personal issues.
     
  11. Streetsweeper

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    What you quoted hardly describes anything in any language I know.
    By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others
    2 Corinthians 9:13
    ESV​

    Hmmm,
    Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.
    2 Corinthians 9:13
    NIV​

    Ahh!, this better.
    My favourite translation is the ESV, but the NIV gets the message across much better in this case.

    I very much consider myself to be a conservative rather than 'lefist' or in your parlance, 'liberal'. Somewhat ironically the Liberal political party in Australia is representative of conservative attitudes. I have been a member of the Liberal Party and was a branch president for some time. I have now left the Liberal party as I believe thay have been unable to provide constructive policies and are merely repeating a tired mantra of 'fiscal responsibility'. The opposite (left) side of politics here is just as bad. In fact there is very little to distinguish the two major parties.

    I think in Australia we give conservatism a very different emphasis to what you have in America. While we bitch and moan about useless bloody pollies, we do have a generally good trust of government and expect Government to be pro-active in managing the country. Founding national principles don't get much airplay. We have a national heritage which is culturally important but the constitution is just a document which regulates government action.

    We have an expectation the constitution will be changed as the country and circumstances evolve. Ironically (again) we have a very low rate of acceptance for constitutional change. Most national referenda fail to achieve the required double majority to be passed.

    My church is also Biblically conservative. We pride ourselves on being 'biblically based'. However, I regard myself as a Christian within the Anglican Church and it seems likely that my Bible perspective may be very different from the norm people on this forum might expect.

    Would you regard someone who holds different views to yourselves to be liberal on the basis that their views are different to your own?
     
  12. Paul3144

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    For me, being a liberal is about the maximization of individual liberty.
     
  13. carpro

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    :laugh: Excellent!
     
  14. InTheLight

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    I see that you are in Sydney, Australia (I think). Therefore here is my American version of a liberal.

    In economic matters favors government involvement and regulation. Believes in spending government money to stimulate the economy. Believes government is the first and best source for many things, like medical care, charity to the less fortunate, loan programs for students, etc.

    In military matters favors smaller military and diplomacy and negotiations rather than confrontation, even with known dictators.

    In taxation believes in progressive taxation (tax the rich at higher rates than the poor or middle class) and redistribution of wealth from more fortunate to less fortunate.

    Yes, and it has become such a perjorative term that liberals have dropped the term when describing themselves and now use the term 'progressive'.

    I have been called a liberal many times on BB, most recently because I agreed with Obama on one, and only one issue, which was to raise taxes on those making more than $600,000 for the purposes of reducing the deficit. I have also been called a liberal because I asked, dared the question, of what legislation could be passed that would be effective in stopping mass murder via shootings.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    Yeah! Marxism has always been about individual liberty. The liberal/left in this country, kissing cousins to Marx, is busily engaged in dismantling the US Constitution, the greatest guarantee of political and economic freedom ever crafted by mortal man!
     
  16. Zaac

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    Now you KNOW that jpeg is too big.:laugh:
     
  17. Winman

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    “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”- Winston Churchill
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    Maximization of individual liberty .... ummm, care to elaborate ?
     
  19. mont974x4

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    They mean liberty for those who agree with them.
     
  20. Aaron

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    As commonly employed when describing one's politics, "liberal" means "leftist." Leftist is in reference to a linear scale of forms of government with totalitarianism on the left end, and anarchy on the right end.

    To be a liberal means to opt for a powerful, less limited central government. To be on the right is to opt for less powerful, more limited central government.
     
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