Liberals and Abortion

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by OldRegular, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. OldRegular

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    Conservatives are generally pictured as the people who have compassion for no one but themselves, who would take the food out of their mothers mouth, yet the majority of Conservatives are opposed to the murder of unborn children. I can say this because the Republican party is the home of most Conservatives. Their party platform calls for overturning Roe v Wade.

    Yet for years liberals and democrats have sold themselves quite successfully as the people who would take the food out of their own mouth and give to the poor and downtrodden. Yet most liberals support the murder of unborn children. I can say this because the democrat party is the home of most liberals. Their party platform calls for unrestricted abortions.

    Why is it that these people, the liberals, and leftists, and democrats, who supposedly care for the poor and downtrodden don't give a tinker's dam about unborn children?

    [I have posted this on a religious forum rather than a political forum because I believe this is a moral and religious issue.]
     
  2. tinytim

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    It is a moral issue... but it seems that those that vote for pro-choice candidates want to ignore the fact that they are guilty of the blood of aborted babies...

    And when we, the ones that have enough guts to call sin, sin, call them on it, they call us names like "arrogant" and "Judgmental"

    Would someone vote for a person that stated up front that people should have the choice to kill any dog they want?
    Of course not..

    But we have a person on this board that had a fit over someone hunting wolves and threw a fit over their candidacy... But this same person voted for someone that prides himself in the fact that he thinks women should be able to kill their unborn babies.

    That is reprehensible...

    But NO... I am arrogant because I point out the fact that voting for a baby killer is sin.

    I got news for you liberals...

    Babies are more important than dumb dogs!

    HUMANS were made in the image of God... NOT wolves.

    In this country you can go to jail for killing a dog...
    But having an abortion is legal...

    Everyone that has an abortion should be tried as a murderer...
    And everyone that assists should also.

    Call me names all you want, but I am VERY passionate about the abortion issue.. maybe too passionate, because I doubt seriously anyone that wants to kill babies will go to Heaven...

    Hey, I even doubt that anyone that says it's ok for someone else to kill babies will go to Heaven...

    Baby killers deserve HELL... the hottest part...
    And so do their supporters!
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    It is a sacrificing of children at the alter of socialism
     
  4. Jim1999

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    If you think only liberal girls have abortions you are absolutely bonkers. It has nothing to do with socialism. You have had other than liberal governments under men like,,what's his name, oh right, conservative actor, then "I am not a crook" and Bush and Bush.............and still abortion clinics!

    Common. Get off the broken bench and face reality!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. Timsings

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    The basic problem with your question is that it is too simplistic. Here on the BB labels are thrown around like hand grenades. Too many conservatives and liberals treat the other side with generalizations. "If you are conservative, you believe X." "If you are liberal, you advocate Y." Each person's political convictions are and should be more complicated than that. I know mine are. Being liberal or conservative is about different broad views of the world, history, humanity, society, religion, culture, government, etc. It is not about any given person's adherence to a grocery list of specific positions.

    You've used the conflict over abortion to make your point. I hesitate to continue with it because arguments over abortion have a tendency to turn into epidemics of epithets. The arguments against abortion always seem to be of the all or nothing variety. "We want the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade ASAP." However, there is statistical evidence that when poor women have access to training that increases their employment opportunities, the number of abortions goes down. But I don't see much, if any, advocacy of such training from the foes of abortion. That doesn't mean it is not happening. It just means that I am not seeing any evidence of it. What I do see is continuing attempts to cut taxes or oppose any tax money being used to fund such training programs.

    It is really easy to take a position where all you have to do is complain about something that you have no real power to change. Liberals might be said to be in a similar situation with regard to gun control. As much as they want to curtail the availability of guns, they will never have total success because they are in a weaker position than the abortion foes. The abortion foes are up against a mere Supreme Court decision. The gun control advocates are up against a constitutional amendment.

    I doubt that anything I've said here will make any difference in anyone's view of those on the other side. If you want to see what it's like, I suggest you watch an old WWI movie. I would suggest All Quiet on the Western Front. You will see two armies entrenched on opposite sides of a wasteland lobbing artillery shells and bullets at each other. That's where find ourselves today. It's not too late to change ourselves. It's a question as to whether we have the will to do it.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    There are many reasons why people choose to get slaughter their children. I suppose we could work to eliminate the excuses made to do so. While we are at it lets unconstitutionally spend tax payer money to eliminate the reasons why people kill other people in a variety of stages of life. Maybe we should excuse O.J. and work to put an end to the driving forces behind his decisions. How about Jeffrey Dahmer, we should eliminate those driving forces behind his horrendous acts.

    Economics is not a reason to murder a child. Maybe we should address the character flaws that drive a mother to slaughter her child rather than economics.
     
  7. LeBuick

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    I welcome a scriptural debate on abortion. However, we don't call anyone arrogant or judgmental because they call sin a sin. Sin is sin and I don't know of anyone who advocates sin.

    We say those things because you and others tend to make judgment on people. Someone here called me a murderer and I have killed no one not even in my heart. I am no murderer and I'm glad my witness is in heaven and my name is on high.

    Now here is the second part to your judgment, "voting for a baby killer is a sin". Sin is a transgression against God and he has defined what sin is. No where in His word did he say "voting for a baby killer is a sin". This means you are not calling me a sinner because of or according to Gods Word, you are calling me a sinner because of your own view of abortion and my voting decisions.

    We then call you arrogant because you say this as if to say you have no sin. You have no sin yet you are bearing false witness against your Brother in Christ (which is a sin) while you are saying we are a sinner for "voting for a baby killer" (which the bible doesn't say). So you are self-righteously sinning while calling someone else a sinner... And you don't see it which is the worst part about it.

    There is a lot of using the Lords name in vein also since so many people decide they have liberty to expound Gods Word into saying things it just doesn't say. I understand your passion regarding abortion but to take it out on your fellowman is not the proper way to vent that passion.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    I agree Rev, Tim made a good point regarding fewer abortions when people are economically able to support the coming baby. That is a fact. So along with addressing the character flaws, if we can get them employed and financially independent we can have a two pronged approach to the problem.
     
  9. John Toppass

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    TT,
    I understand your emotion about abortion. I have not been in this board long but it seems that some of the rules do not allow the true, honest discussion of many things. I agree whole heartedly with you when you say that those who vote for candidates that approve and vote for the murder of children by way of abortion, those voters have the blood of innocent children on their hands. Repeated votes for such candidates, in my opinion, constitutes repeated and willful sin against God.
     
  10. OldRegular

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    I recognize that the OP is simplistic but as you point out there are many nuances to the terms Conservative and Liberal. There are many Conservatives who are pro abortion, particularly the country club or elitist Republicans. Arlen Spector and the two women Senators from Maine are pro abortion, though Republicans I would not consider them very Conservative. There are some Liberals who are pro life. Harry Reid of Nevada and Senator Casey of Pa. two of the most liberal members of the Senate are pro life. I am sure there are many others I cannot name.

    I believe the OP, though simplistic, accurately states the general trend in regards to abortion. This is supposedly a Christian Forum. That OP was written with that in mind. I cannot understand how Christians can justify supporting a party whose stated purpose is to remove any restrictions on abortions.

    I do not believe that saying that there are other issues trumps the abortion question. We have murdered more than 50 million babies since Roe v Wade. That is about 4000 per day. How can a society which claims to be 80% Christian justify that slaughter.

    One other point. There are millions of families out there who would gladly adopt a child and give it a good home but abortion has essentially and literally killed that option.
     
    #10 OldRegular, Jan 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2009
  11. Jim1999

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    I taught at a liberal theological school. My fundamentalist friends labelled me a liberal and my liberal fellow professors called me a fundamentalist.

    A good label tells one how to launder his shirt, or take his pills, but often mislabels a person.

    We should not be so quick to label people but take time to listen. The first principle in counselling is listening. Do we learn nothing from the story of Job and his counsellors?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Then they are not conservative.
     
  13. thegospelgeek

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    While this may be the perception of many. Surveys show that conservatives outgive liberals by quite a margin. http://philanthropy.com/news/prospecting/index.php?id=6166 I have found that most liberals are quite willing to give someoneelse's money through social programs.

    I know lumping all as conservative or liberal is not 100% accurate, but it is a starting point.

    However, it amazes me that threads on abortion are debateable on a Christian website.
     
  14. THEOLDMAN

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    When do we become "ensouled" ? Is it at the moment of conception ? Is it 30 days after birth (as most jews have belived) ? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    I believe at the moment of conception. Scripture tells us:

    Isaiah 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
    Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
    Isaiah 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant[/]b, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
    Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
     
  16. THEOLDMAN

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    Thank you Sir. Anybody else ?
     
  17. sag38

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    How old are you?
     
  18. dragonfly

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    These Scriptures in no way answer the question that was asked.
     
  19. THEOLDMAN

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    Old enough to wonder why:"why do you want to know" ? Would you ask a woman her age ? Does this have anything to do with my question ?
     
  20. Jim1999

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    I have read all those verses and if God creates us from conception, then any means of birth control is also abortion. Even abstention is a form of birth control. We are deciding when a child should be born and are attempting to thwart the "plan" of God.

    My argument is that sometimes abortion is a medical neccesity, but abortion is not always the solution.

    All stripes of people utilize abortion; conservatives, liberals and every other stripe. One is no more guilty than the other.

    The question remains, What are we doing about it? Preaching how wrong it is falls on deaf ears for the most part. Some are reaching out to help the young girl in trouble. Most strap her with self-righteous vindictiveness.

    I admit that some are given over to abortion, but bombastic declarations are not helping. The woman's liberation movement did not help the situation as they tried to elevate themselves above society.

    In here the abortion cry eventually wears thin and become annoying. If I heard a sermon, no matter how good, week after week after week, I would soon be seeking another church for edification.

    I have not seen anyone in here advocating abortion, so why do some feel the need to wear out the record? Why lash the so-called liberals mor than the others who also use this service?

    Maybe we should be supplying a silver dollar to every young girl to firmly hold between her knees as she goes out on a date. Maybe we should spend more time teaching the truth about sexual relations. Just maybe we should be doing more from a positive point of view.

    Just maybe...............

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

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