Liberals Get What They Wanted...High Fuel Prices

The thread title is deceptive. No proof that liberals wanted high oil prices, just because some wanted to protect the Arctic Wildlife Preserve.

More like oilmen Bush & Cheney will benefit for years after leaving office! Better buy Halliburton stock.

 

Here is my layperson's perspective on it.

The Dems like to scream and shout about how not conserving energy and finding less oil related fuels is the reason for high gas prices. This is, of course, political rhetoric which has very little to do with trying to solve the problem and help out the average guy. They are simply trying to smear their political opponets and still placate their constituents.

The GOP talks about lack of domestic drilling being the reason for high gas prices. This is, of course, political rhetoric which has very little to do with trying to solve the problem and help out the average guy. They are simply trying to smear their political opponets and still placate their constituents.

Big oil blames Katrina, Iran, high taxes, the DEMS, you and me, and anyone and everyone they can to justify the fact that they always pull in record profits while they gouge us at the pump and tell us they have to do it.

So, Joseph, if you were prince of the planet and king for a day, what would you do? Good question. Let me tell you:

1. I would drill in ANWAR 3 years ago.
2. I would build more refineries.
3. I would encourage more conservation and more energy effecient fuels.
4. I would stop dancing around the issues and accepting the excuses from big oil for their price gouging and start funding some projects to produce cheaper fuels, or give tax breaks to those companies who are not gouging the prices. I would find some way to reward honesty and integrity and punish those who just want to get rich off the pain of others.

Now that I have said my peace and probably made everyone mad, I leave you to burn me at the stake. From my point of view, however, none of the power people who could make a positive change (GOP, DEMS, or big oil) care one bit about the average person. All they care about is manipulating a vote out of them and smearing each other so as not to be accountable for their own actions or lack of leadership.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I'm pleased to see that Joseph has finally realized that George W. Bush is a liberal.

 

Galatian,

I never said he wasn't.

Joseph Botwinick

 

My mistake. Sorry. So you voted for him anyway?

 

No problem.

Joseph Botwinick

 

OOPs. messed up the edit. Joseph apparently responded to only my first sentence.

 

Yes. I voted for him anyway because he was the best candidate in the race.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Lets get real and take a balanced approached this guy in his blog explains a lot.

In Iran it is not high enough

snippet:In sharp contrast, oil in Saudi Arabia costs, by OPEC's own admission, just $1.50 a barrel to find and pump (and probably less). Add the cost of pipelines, processing, and shipping, and it would still be comfortably profitable at $5 a barrel, delivered in Rotterdam or Houston or Mumbai. But oil producers manipulate the market to keep prices high -- and now, at over$70 per barrel, oil is wildly, extortionately, obscenely profitable for the OPEC sheikhs and their oil patch cheerleaders (think Exxon-Mobil, or Lee Raymond}. It is almost as obscenely profitable for their cronies whose costs of production are higher -- the producers of oil from the North Sea, the North Slope of Alaska, the wastes of Siberia, and the deep-water wells of the Gulf of Mexico. Even in the Canadian tar sands, where oil companies are investing billions to steam oil from the hard black earth, the cost of production is just $20 a barrel, leaving a profit of 275 percent at today's price.

If the producers of wheat and other food crops could collude on prices as successfully, the world economy would probably collapse, and famine would rage around the planet.


I think all the oil sheikhs we protect in the middle east deserve to give us a major discount
for it is our blood that keeps them safe...and they would still make a profit or would they then whine and scare with "Peak Oil". and bush promised to jaw bone these guys to keep the price down...can we say flip-flopper boys and girls. bush does not care, he is willing to play the martyr to keep it high in the biggest "Cronies admininstration" perhaps in our history.

ANWR...can we say a mega-drop in the bucket from an area a Republican President designated as pristine with the hope that it would stay that way. It is not a liberal wish as those who will try to avert eyes from the real greed and spin.

 

Isn't it re-publicans who own the oil companies?

 

And a lot of Democrats and independents and minor party members and mutual funds and pension plans and 401(k)'s and IRA's. In other words, probably most people in the United States.

 

Joseph,
Excellent post!!! The fact is that both parties are scum, and dont care about the American people.

Joseph, would you consider running for President under the US Constitution party. You got my vote.

 

Hey, Joseph, I guess you and Senator Pryor are best buddies now since ya'll are sounding so much alike nowadays.

There you go again with this ignorance-based charge that you are being "gouged" at the pump. No, you are not. If you were then you and your buddy, Senator Pryor, would be able to prove it. But you can't. And if you and Senator Pryor and Bill O'Reilly can't put up then ya'll really ought to shut up with this falsehood.

You really need to check the following websites on a daily basis when the markets are open so that you can know what's going on in the oil and gasoline markets:

http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=NYMEX_CL

http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=NYMEX_HU

What do you want gasoline stations to do, sell gasoline at a loss to make you, Senator Pryor, and Bill O'Reilly happy? Forgetaboutit. The oil companies are not going to go broke just to satisfy ya'll's populist poppycock.

If you researched the subject you would know that the vast majority of the record profits of the integrated oil companies came from the upstream side of the business, not the downstream side. This is an irrefutable fact. And it is easy to understand why.

For example, the lifting costs for oil are approximately $20/bbl. So a couple of years ago when oil was at $40/bbl. on the NYMEX the profit was $20/bbl. Today at $70/bbl. on the NYMEX the profit is $50/bbl., or 150% higher. That's where the lion's share of the record profits come from.

Now if you can get the NYMEX to raise its margin requirements to cut back on the speculators, get the president of Iran to shut up about wiping out Israel, and get President Bush to shut up about starting what could very well end up being a world war with Iran, the price of oil could go back down to $40/bbl.

The oil companies still net about $.05/gal. at the pump, regardless of whether the price of oil is $40/bbl. or $70/bbl., whether the price at the pump is $1.00/gal. or $3.00/gal. The only time this changes is for brief periods during shortages such as what happened after the twin hurricanes last year that knocked out 20% of U.S. refining capacity for several weeks.

 

Ken,
News Flash!!! Joseph is right. You are falling into the old trap of one corrupt party fighting with another corrupt party. The fight is a facade to protect their power base so the American people think they have a choice. If thats what you want to believe, go ahead. Both parties need beiefs such as this.

 

And during the mid-80's and the late 90's, to use your terminology, oil was wildly, obscenely unprofitable.

You know why? Because commodities are cyclical in nature - whether it is oil, soybeans, wheat, corn, etc. Just like the economy. Just like stocks and bonds.

And the shareholders who take the risks to keep searching for a vital commodity such as oil when there is little or no profit in it deserve the reap the rewards when the market turns in their favor.

If socialists don't like it, that's tough. It's how a free market economy works. Maybe socialists would prefer to live in Cuba(since the Soviet Union no longer exists) where the government controls the economy.

 

Huh? I have absolutely no use for either socialist branch of the Demopublican Party(or if one prefers, the Republicrat Party).

I said nothing in my post about politics. I was talking economics.

 

No, Joseph was wrong about this subject last autumn and he is still wrong about it today. My points about the economics of the integrated oil companies at the top of this page are irrefutable.