Libertarian Party and foreign policy

This whole debate is meaningless Bill. So long as our foreign policy is in the hands of the bankers and corporations there can only be one outcome. The death of the republic. After that it won't matter at all. We'll either be kneeling at Jesus feet in heaven or groveling at the feet of some dictator on earth. I prefer the former myself.

 

First off take a step back and change the word "isolationist" to non interventionist. No one including Ron Paul has ever called for an "isolationist" foreign policy. "Isolationist" is a buzzword all the fake conservative TV commentators and the neocon pro endless war crowd throw around to scare conservatives away from going back to our roots.

They like to paint scary pictures with words that's all they are doing when they throw out "isolationist". It's down right dishonest Ryan. Don't buy it without looking into what a true non interventionist/non nation building foreign policy is first.

Did you know that G.W. Bush won his first term by running on a non interventionist non nation building platform? Yes he did. Prior to 9/11 conservatives believed in a non interventionist foreign policy. It's only after 9/11 happened and all the scaremongers came out of the woodwork to take us on our current global spree of never ending wars in seven+ countries that they started using the word "isolationist" to scare conservatives into staying with a foreign policy we never believed in.

And to answer your question. We should have never been in Benghazi. Libya was never a threat to the US. It was a threat to the big transnational oil companies and the global bankers power and control of Libya's natural resources. Neither the bankers nor the oil companies have any loyalty to the United States. Their loyalty lies with the bottom line. Period. Libya was never in need of "humanitarian" aid from us or anyone else be it bullets or butter until we started training, funding and arming the radical Islamists that are now in charge of the country and flying Al Qaeda's flag over the capitol.

 

Careful; you are making too much sense.

We have one political party in this county -- the Republicrats. It's made up of fascists (neocon corporatists) in one wing and socialists in the other. The fascist wing believes in bailing out corporations, engaging in endless wars, and bankrupting the country by spending to support these wars and corporations -- in the words of Bush: "I'm abandoning the free market to save the free market". The socialist wing is a bunch of baby-killing, sodomite-affirming, immoral and amoral cultural relativists who want as many as possible to be wards of the government; this will ensure the perpetual re-election of like-minded politicians. You know, they have a vested interest in keeping people poor.

The Republicrats' policies will ensure that the USA will become and remain in the status of a third-world backwater.

One note: People blame Obama for the 16 trillion dollar deficit, but that is not entirely true: The Federal Reserve -- which is not federal and has no reserve -- is responsible for 7 trillion of that by its policy of "quantitative easing".

So let the brain dead American sheeple keep voting for the Republicrats; we get what we deserve. And we'll continue to do so until we wake up and select a candidate who stands for the Constitution -- you know, the founding, governing document of the country, which the Republicrats are pledged to defend but which they are traitors to by their actions and votes.

People talk about voting for the lesser of two evils. Really? It's getting harder all the time to determine who that is. Or, as a friend of mine says, maybe it's easier to try to avoid voting for the evil of two lessers.

 

It is very likely that this country wold have eventually been forced to enter WWII. However, I believe that FDR pushed things up somewhat to bring the country out of his, not Hoover's, depression. The Lend-Lease program was one means, the draft was another. And the question always remains: Why were all our battleships tied up in Pearl given the tension with Japan. I believe Billy Mitchell had warned of the possibility of such an attack years before. It seems to take something like a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to get the American people in the mood!

I would not argue that eventually the Germans and Japanese with their desire for conquest would not have eventually tuned to the US. That is something we will never know.

The democrats were able to damn the Republicans for 60 years with "HOOOOOVER TIMES". I believe Gore even used it in 2000. Now the democrats are able to blame the last four years on Bush, not Obammy. Apparently exit polls bear this out!

 

Ah yes the infamous left vs right paradigm. I agree with what you are saying for the most part here but I have a little different view of the left vs right paradigm Michael. I'll try and explain it right after I say a few words to Ryan.

Ryan, I know a bit about military history too. I know we have been using terrorists as proxy fighters going back to at least 1953. On the one hand our government tells us they are the biggest threat to our national security and so they have to pass all kinds of unconstitutional laws that restrict our freedoms and enables the government to track and trace our every move without warrants or probable cause to "protect us" from the terrorists. On the other hand our government trains, funds and arms the same terrorists and uses them to overthrow regimes like Qaddafi's and Assad's and cause civil wars and ethnic cleansing in the aftermath of "regime change" . It's called divide and conquer. If you are a student of military history you understand how it works and you've seen it used over and over again.

To me that's insanity and you never answered my question about how you felt about training, funding and arming our country's biggest enemy.

Michael, Here's my take on the left vs right paradigm. It's false. It's not a just a matter of socialists vs fascists. It's bigger than that. I'm going to try and explain how I see it best I can but this little box and the lack of any way to create a decent graphic makes it difficult. Hope you can follow along.

I'm going to have to use some abbreviations in order to make this fit into the box. Here goes.

Total Government = TG
Anarchy = A
Communism = C
Fascism = F
Good Government = GG

Okay. Most people believe the political spectrum looks something like this.

C_______________________________GG____________________________F

That's communism on the far left and fascism on the far right with good government somewhere in the middle. That's only a partial picture though and does not give us an actual view of the political spectrum. Yes there is a battle going on between the left and right but it's bigger than that and most people fail to see it.

The political spectrum in reality looks more like this.

TG______________________________________GG____________________A

On the far left is total government on the far right is anarchy with good government somewhere to the right of center. Anarchy doesn't work because as sinners we need government to protect us from other people but that government should be limited in order to protect us from a tyrannical government. Our founders understood this and gave us a limited government bound by a constitution. Our founders understood this completely but they don't teach this understanding in our government schools so we have forgotten it. Not only have we forgotten it but we deny it. And look where it has gotten us.

Follow me so far? Okay cool. Now let's have another look at the what the communist vs fascist paradigm looks like on the big spectrum. Let's take what most perceive as the left vs right spectrum and shrink it down a bit to this.

C___vs___F

Still following me? That's communism on the far left and fascism on the far right with good government in the middle. See how small it is? Yes there is a fight going on between communism and fascism but it's not the whole picture. Now that we have shrunk the left vs right spectrum down we can put it in it's proper place along the whole political spectrum and it looks like this.

TG_________C_vs_F__________________________GG________________A

We have total government on the far left and a bit right of that we have where we are along the whole political spectrum today. See how far we've moved toward total government on the scale? We are almost to the point of total government now. While we have been busy focusing only on this C__vs__F we have been sliding towards total government the whole time. While conservatives try to move the government a little to the right and the liberals try to move government a little to the left nobody has been paying real attention to how both parties are moving us steadily towards total government though we all know they have we fail to grasp why they have been so successful at it. So, this

C__vs__F is real but we falsely believe it's the whole of the political spectrum. That's why I call it the false left vs right paradigm. We need to step back and take a look at the big picture and adjust our thinking accordingly instead of thinking it's conservatives vs liberals we all conservatives and liberals alike need to understand that's it's all of us vs total government and total tyranny. And Ryan, the government has been running the same "divide and conquer" scam on us here at home. As long as they can keep us fighting amongst each other and keep us focused on the false left vs right paradigm they can keep moving us towards total government and total tyranny with our help. We need to stop and realize what is really going on here and stop bickering with each other and unite. Hey I don't like holding hands with liberals any better than you do but I'd rather do that than live under total tyranny where all life is considered to be property of the state to be dealt with as the state sees fit. And that's right where we're heading if we don't all wake up and soon.

Hope that makes sense.

 

LOL ...Ryan are you still in active service?

 

Agreed...good post.:thumbs:

 

> So long as our foreign policy is in the hands of the bankers and corporations there can only be one outcome. The death of the republic. After that it won't matter at all.

And it is a done deal. Plan for it.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy


As summary Kant named these four kinds of government:

A Law And Freedom without Violence (Anarchy)
B Law And Violence without Freedom (Despotism)
C Violence without Freedom And Law (Barbarism)
D Violence with Freedom And Law (Republic)

 

Been planning for it even before the "giant sucking sound" was first heard. :smilewinkgrin:

 

This is usually made simply into a 2D matrix, with TG vs A made the vertical dimension, called “authoritarianism vs libertarianism”.

Fascism and socialism are both very authoritarian. People have come to associate authoritarianism with the far left because of Communism, but the right can be authoritarian as well.

 

No matter which way it's drawn it still ends up being we the people vs tyranny and total government.

For too long now we have chosen to overlook the tyranny within our own political ranks in order to advance our own agenda while seeking to put a check on the other side's tyranny and agenda. Both the lefties and the righties have played this game for so long neither side even begin to get a grasp on the idea that by playing this game of the "lesser of two evils" we as in republicans and democrats have been the main contributing factor in the steady advance of tyranny within our government.

It's time to change our paradigm so we can change our course and the first change has to come by realizing that a third party owns and controls the tyrants of both parties.

So the actual real political spectrum turns out to be a simple equation.

Private Global Banksters = PGB
Transnational Mega Corporations = TMC
Elite Political Class = EPC
We The People = WTP
Our Doom = OD

Or . . .

PGB+TMC+EPC vs WTP = OD

If we don't wake up and soon!

 

What's up Ryan lose interest already?

You said this is something you believe needs to be discussed but you haven't shown much interest in the discussion since you started the thread. What's up with that? It takes two to have a discussion.

 

Thank you. Most on this forum who claim to be Republican are actually LORINO*. A foreign nation takes precedence over their own country.

Ah, the Constitution. You have to admit that individual liberties are quite a major theme in that document. Imagine where we'd be without it.

*Likud Oriented Republican In Name Only.

 

Wouldn't you be better served in that regard if you just read what our founders had to say about it then?

I can well understand why you'd be less interested in articulating your positions if you still think our current foreign policy is such a grand idea after all that has come out about it in the news lately.

I do wish you'd answer my question though. Shouldn't take all that much time.

How do you feel about funding and arming Salafists in Libya and Syria while we're in the middle of waging a "war on terror"?

In case you haven't heard the latest.

West Conjures Fake "Syrian" Government

Smokescreen meant to cover open-backing of foreign Al Qaeda terrorists inside Syria, while panicking & disrupting Syrian unity.

November 14, 2012 (LD) - Predictably, the Western arranged confab in Doha, Qatar has seen the selection and approval by the US and its allies of a "new opposition coalition" to serve as the face of militants fighting inside Syria.

This was in response to overwhelming international condemnation to what has become an open proxy war fought against Syria by Western interests and its regional allies. It is a repeat of the now catastrophically failed NATO intervention in Libya that has left the nation mired in genocidal sectarian and tribal violence, a weak, ineffectual client-regime, and human rights abuses dwarfing in reality, the now confirmed fabrications used by NATO ahead of military operations early in 2011.

France and the Arab League have already reapplied their stamp of approval on the "new" coalition, following their support for the same political front they have attempted to prop up for the last nearly 2 years.

Coalition is Smoke Screen for state Sponsorship of Terrorism.

Beginning at least as early as 2007, the West and its allies, primarily the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia, began quietly organizing, funding, and arming a regional front of sectarian extremists across the Arab World to be used against Lebanon, Syria, and Iran. Exposed in Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh's "The Redirection," published that same year in the New Yorker, it was revealed that many of these sectarian extremists were in fact affiliated directly with Al Qaeda.

CONTINUE . . .

Is this your idea of a "sane" foreign policy?