Liberty or Death?

I'm honestly not taunting (if I was taunting I'd including nany-nany-boo-boo ) I just want people to put up, their evidence, or shut up, their rhetoric about this.

I've sat in this forum long enough to see the palpable difference in how one political party received and the other discounted. Frankly they're both corrupt and beyond redemption. I've also seen these kinds of false charges leveled against the administration. Frankly, I've grown tired of it. My challenge exists because:

a) These are false statements against people and Christians are to be better than this kind of foolishness.

b) These are error-laden and only serve to make those who claim them look ridiculous and out of touch.

c) We believers we should confront authority with facts, right now this is just confronting authority with rhetoric. It isn't NT and it isn't Christian.

d) We're better than this.

So honestly, my challenge for anyone saying there are "death panels" in this bill is to show us or stop impugning the President and the Congress on this issue. It really is an issue of personal conduct and Christian ethic. Such false statements deserve to be confronted.

This obviously has spill over effects and I've personally seen the anger and vitriol some will display against a political party in church. There is no place for it: we are to meet corruption with purity, falsehood with truth. <PA deleted - LE>
BTW (and I'll say this again) I don't think this is a good bill.

 

Nothing but the truth. Which might explain why we've got darkness competing against darkness for the Presidency of the United States.

For sure there are false accusations made against he administration and the administration makes quite a few of its own.

Perhaps people ascribe stuff to the administration because the current administration never takes responsibility for anything. :laugh:

 

OldRegular, I'm quoting multiple posts (some not directed at me) to draw together your entire argumentation. As noted above I am challenging your entire disposition about talking about this law while also saying your statements are blatantly false.

Neither of these statement proves your point. You have yet to show us, by using the free download of the law, where the "death panels" exist in the law You have posted a completely unrelated section of procedure for debate but nothing actually related to the law itself. Since you pride yourself on being such a redoubtable conservative you besmirch your reputation with such poor argumentation.

You have said nothing here that proves your point.

This also reflects a misunderstanding of the law was passed. Frankly I'm appalled at how the Congress, both chambers, acted in passing this. A better line of argumentation overall is to challenge the conference committee that like never before in the history of the United States took the mightily different Congressional and Senate bills and colluded to mash them together to form a final bill (which differed in major sections from the plurality of votes it took to pass it) and get it to the President. That is a more effective means of arguing against the bill.

Whoa dude, don't ever accuse anyone on this board of this kind of stuff. I've never, ever on this board defended this bill

I'm asking you to apologize to FAL and myself for this ridiculous false accusation. Don't think that just because I'm calling you and your false charges out that I support the law.

This makes no sense. First of all the onus is on you to prove this, or any, statement you make on this board. If you say there are "death panels" (which is a ridiculous statement) you better be willing to prove it. Otherwise you are making a false accusation which violates Scripture.

This is a non sequitor and ad hominem attack. If you can't produce actual evidence for your claims you can't just call those of us challenging you "undiscerning" and besmirch us spiritually. That isn't fair or Christian.

So you can just make up terms and apply them ad hoc against things you don't like? I don't buy it.

Lots of bills are long. Look at the Tax Code or Budget that is passed every year. Look at the Defense Authorization Act, look at the Americans with Disability Act, etc Just because its long doesn't mean its wrong. You can't argue against a bill's merits based on its length.

Plenty of Republican bills are just as long...and just as bad as this one.

Big deal, I've had over a dozen. But you still haven't proven there are death panels in this bill.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...just because a bureaucrat is in charge doesn't make the bill evil or bad. Plenty of bureaucrats work in the defense department. BTW, you still haven't proven there are death panels.

My drawers are "in a knot." But you are libeling yourself in front of the whole world. Because you still haven't proven there are death panels.

I don't get this "I can call it whatever I want thing" either. You're completely discrediting yourself by propounding your ignorance.

Not an argument or evidence for death panels.

See my above comment. Listen in this forum, like others, the onus is on you to prove your claims. You haven't done this.

So what do we have from you:
* Poor argumentation and over the topic rhetoric
* Lots of red herrings and no actual interaction with the issues
* Still no proof death panels are in the bill

OldRegular, where are the death panels?

 

This isn't an argument supporting the claim about death panels. It is a slanderous claim that lacks any support. Most of the leading Democrats, and Repblicans, have said they read the bill. I'll take their word for it.

BTW, if you haven't read the bill yourself, what ground do you have to accuse them?

It isn't cumbersome. Show us specifically what and where you see this in the process.

You just don't understand how our government works. We have tons of these kinds of regulatory boards that make recommendations. You think this is the first? Part of running a government like this (which I completely disagree with btw) is to use these kinds of boards. But again no one in the forum in this thread has shown where there are death panels or that these boards will decide life and death issues.

Show us where, in the bill these suddenly become death panels. Show us where in the bill this board(s) gets to determine life or death for patients and persons.

No it hasn't been.

This isn't true either. You have yet to show us where in the bill linked there is a provision for making life or death decisions in this procedure. You have yet to show us where this panel gets its authorization and authority. Finally, you are relying on someone else for your proof of this, how about you give us proof yourself.

Lots. You and OldRegular have given us zero evidence that these death panels exist and that these boards can make life or death decisions.

The basic premise of the OP is still unproven.

 

So you can just decide who can or can't call you on the carpet for blatantly false claims? So you refuse to hear a rebuke about bearing false witness against other people?

Show us, then show us where the death panels are in the bill. Show us where any board gets to make life or death decisions. Show us the proof behind your OP.

Red herring and slanderous, ad hominem charge. I've statement above I don't support the bill or the administration in this regard. Get back to showing us your evidence. Stop trying to accuse me of being something I'm not.

 

I agree that this President is a radical Marxist with a socialist agenda, but that does not mean you have to make false accusations against him or the things he supports. Let me repeat. I am totally against this law based on constitutional grounds not to mention the economic problems it may very well cause. However I will not at any time become like the world and make false statements to try and get it overthrown or prove my disdain for it. That is how satan works and has no business in the Christian life. Speak the truth, and the truth is not making up things that might be while claiming them to be, and the Lord will be honored and stand with us. Speak falsehoods and the Lord will be dishonored as He is being here by many and we stand alone

 

All of this assumes those who post this know better but are doing it anyway. What a shame you are willing to take on such and ungodly attitude and assume the worst about others. I have posted quite a bit to back up what I have said. Just because it does not convince you does not mean people are making false claims. It just and only means you and I disagree. As far as I am concerned this claim has much basis. Now you may not like that but that does not mean I am intentionally making false claims.

Maybe you could just agree to disagree.

 

Moderator Note

Moderator Note:

My hand is tired from deleting so many personal attacks and insults on this thread and I finally have given up!!

Please remember to agree to disagree without stooping to name calling and insinuations towards other members on the BB!!!

For that reason and the fact that there is a 10-page limit on threads in this forum, this thread is now closed.

Please start another thread if you wish to carry on, but please be cognizant of the Posting Rules. If the personal attacks continue, the name calling, etc. Moderator action (infractions) will be issued. This is fair warning! Thanks for your compliance.

Lady Eagle
Moderator
:flower: