Liberty Removes Ergun Caner

Rippon,

I agree, to the public Dr. Caner, to my knowledge, has not apologized and made a full confession. This may be the only portion that truly disturbs me.

Liberty/TRBC does operate on the Grace principle. Yes, there are times when the hammer has come down, but I personally know and can testify of their care to trying to redeem people coming out of some very messy situations. To that end, I am glad they chose to retain Dr. Caner even though personally I have some substantial disagreements with him on a myriad of topics and believe what he has done as lying.

The contradictions in the statement that you pointed out are also disturbing. I probably will not comment as my thoughts are overly speculative.

 

Yes, NOTHING could be more humbling than being . . . BLUE COLLAR!:laugh:

 

Hey, I worked in a factory for about 5 years. It's honest but sometimes backbreaking labor. Ergun needs to experience that kind of sweat-of-the-brow type of work and stay under the radar for a good long time. He doesn't deserve to be in a position of leadership in a church or Christian school of any kind. He needs to stop his lecture/preaching sessions. He needs to make a full confession -- not just issue an "I'm sorry." behind closed doors. He has sinned publicly in front of multiplied thousands -- he needs to have a press conference and amid everything in a clean sweep. That includes repenting for his harsh words toward bloggers who have telling the truth.

 

There you go. The Rippon "gulag method", a la Kim Jong-il?:laugh:

 

Jerome, is it at all possible for you to join in a conversation seriously? Without acting like a 7th grade smart aleck?

It would be one thing is this were every once in a while but you do it all the time. Always pasting little bits of text that take out of context the original intent.

 

I definitely disagree with this!!

I believe that Liberty's response was perfectly balanced, and appropriate, with the singular exception that Caner should make a formal, public apology for his lies.

Having worked most of my life in construction, and factory situations, I have to say that is the last place Caner needs to be. By and large these are spiritually destructive places, full of things like pornography and smut, which if anything, would serve to lead Caner further astray.

Also, Caner, despite his lies, has worked for his degrees, and should be allowed to work in his "line of work." If I were the university, I would (after he made a public apology), move him to the University, rather than Seminary side, and let him teach something like undergrad World Religions, or something.

Certainly his family should not be made to suffer for his misdeeds, which is exactly what would happen, were he to take a "factory job." And, since I know I myself, and every other person I know, sins every single day, I would have to say that your approach would mean no more pastors, ever. You yourself, have no doubt sinned today. The issue is not the sin; the issue is the repentance.

 

This thread is just more evidence of those who want him destroyed.

 

I have no problem with him being on the faculty, but I do like the suggestion of him being moved to the university side of things.

 

Oh, several years of hard labor will do.:laugh:

I amid it. I find this fantasizing about concocting "appropriately humbling" punishments to be just plain weird.

 

I believe he should make a formal, public apology as well. For what it's worth, the clock is still ticking on this so we may see this apology shortly.

I've spent many years working "blue collar" jobs. It's difficult, but honest work.

If you can keep your mind engaged in positive, wholesome and godly things, you can do just fine. I would hope that Caner has enough spiritual maturity to deal with the temptations that "normal" people experience everyday.

Teaching is his profession, so I agree it would be wasteful not to allow him to continue to do the thing he is trained to do.

Moreover, by keeping him on the faculty, he is going to learn great humility by associating every day with the education community to whom he misrepresented himself. It allows him to remain in the healing crucible of humility and allows the Liberty community to extend grace to him every day.

I think the worst thing to do would be to send him away where he doesn't have to directly face the consequences of his actions.

Some "factory jobs" pay quite well, especially compared to most seminary positions, so I'm not sure of your point here...

Yes, the sins have been committed.

Now is the time for repentance and redemption!

 

Question to all:

I know that the idea of a "factory" job has been raised.

Do you honestly believe Dr. Caner could get hired at a factory?

He would be unbelievably overqualified for such a position.

 

Yes. But I'm sure he also has some commendable attributes as well.

While I certainly understand and respect this opinion, I wonder if it isn't "too easy" on everyone.

I think it is harder for both Liberty and Caner to remain together to work on his redemption, rather than cast "the sinner" away from Liberty in order to make Liberty look more holy. Jesus was often criticized by the reputation of some of the people He associated with (tax gatherers, prostitutes, etc.) Jesus kept sinners very close to him and they were, for the most part, redeemed by his ministry to them. Simon Peter, a leader who notoriously lied about his relationship to Jesus, was painfully humbled and restored when Jesus confronted him on the shore.

God consistently risks His reputation by being associated with the church. The way I see it, Liberty is taking a chance with its reputation in order to redeem Canar.

I see that as spiritually bold and profoundly Christian.

I'd rather have Jesus incarnate teaching me every day, but all my University and Seminary departments had were very fallible human beings.

Now I do know what you mean... There needs to be some strong standards for character. However, this is where grace comes in. I hope that the leadership at Liberty has a good handle on the situation and has outlined a clear program of redemption and restoration for Caner.

I don't either. I personally have little knowledge of Liberty or the personalities involved.

 

In this economic climate, it would be difficult to get hired at any factory. Especially if they thought you were only in it for the short term.

In some ways, but maybe not in others.

I've worked in "blue collar" jobs with other seminarians back in the day, and most of them were not qualified to do hard labor, multi-task time critical events, or communicate with people who did not share their same WASP-y, "church-y" background.

 

Wow, some of you have decided you want to be the ones who fix his penalty and make certain the punishment is carried out.

He has done wrong. I am certain that the penalty he pays will be steep.

I just hope none of you never do such a public wrong.

 

Yes, Tom. Hopefully Caner casts himself upon God's mercy where he will find abundant pardon. If he cast himself upon the mercy of some on the BB he'd be in sad shape. How can those of us who have already been forgiven be so harsh with someone who has not? Where would we be if we got what we deserve?

 

Because they want him destroyed. Plain and simple For many this is not about character, or the reputation of the school but about revenge.

 

What an odd thread.