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Liberty Removes Ergun Caner

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Martin, Jun 25, 2010.

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  1. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    The official statement from LU refers to Dr. Caner as dean. It says nothing about him being President.

    Why did the official statement not refer to Dr. Caner as President and Dean?

    The headlines, based off of the official statement, now read, "Caner removed as Dean of LBTS."

    Hmmm.

    Perhaps a more accurate official statement from LU would have produced the following headline: "Caner removed as President from LBTS."

    You can draw your own conclusions as to why they only referred to him in the official statement as dean.
     
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Spoken by someone who defended Caner and blamed James White and Calvinists for this. You still don't get it.
     
  3. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    Looks like LU is trying to save face rather then stand for truth. Too bad. I guess his popularity as a speaker is just too much to pass by.
     
  4. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Some want him to admit exactly what he did wrong, ask for forgiveness, demonstrate genuine humility, then good for him if he can be restored even to his former position. Some want the public and the media to know that Christian institutions can actually practice what they preach and not just try to sweep actions by high profile people under the rug.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh no, you have it wrong. I have never defended Caner. But then you already knew that. I never blamed anyone. I question their motives based on the way it was handled.. Apparently it is you who doesn't get it. But mischaracterization is no surprise.
     
    #65 Revmitchell, Jun 27, 2010
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  6. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    #66 Grasshopper, Jun 27, 2010
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  7. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Thanks for posting that Grasshopper. I knew RevMitchell had defended Caner but I did not have the time to go look it up.

    That brings to mind a couple of points though.

    First, Caner and White never actually debated. Caner was not honest then and they kept changing the rules. Caner behaved very poorly in all of that.

    Also, there has been no ongoing exchange between the two of them and in fact Dr. White had not mentioned Caner at all for sometime before this came up.

    No, the motive that Dr White has claimed and backed up by his actions is that Caner claimed to do what he does, namely debate members of other religions, including Islam.
    That was the initial reason and also he is a firm believer in standing for truth.

    That is all.
     
  8. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    Issue concerning James White

    I find it disturbing those who are questioning James' character and motives. White's biggest error was not listening to some of his friends who encouraged him to not engage Caner in the initial debate. I do not think he is approaching the Caner issue with the degree of venom many are attributing to him. I find some attacks on him just as degrading as some of the attacks I have seen against Liberty.

    Issue concerning Liberty

    I find it disturbing some wish to attack a University for extending grace to a fellow brother. Yes, he does not deserve grace, but it was extended to him. Yes, in a secular university they may not have extended grace, but Christians should be people of grace. Why should Christians attack grace if he cooperated fully? Why? Grace was given, and we, Christians, should be the last to condemn such grace.

    Liberty's statement is concerning, but not a statement worth attacking them and attributing evil motives. I believe those who are attacking Liberty by attributing such evil motives are doing exactly what some have done to James White. If in charge, your decision may have been different, but the decision was not yours. Liberty did not sweep this under the rug. While they may not have gone as far as you would like, they took action.

    Conclusion

    Both sides who are attacking the motives of the other is, in my opinion, acting in a most unChristian manner. James is an Elder in his church, treat him as such. Liberty is normally a respected Christian institution that has stood firm on unpopular Biblical principles and has earned the benefit of the doubt. Treat them as such.

    If you have problems with either group, I think it demands more than speculation as to their motives, and the rest of us should not entertain these accusations.
     
    #68 Ruiz, Jun 27, 2010
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  9. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Does anyone know if Elmer Towns has apologized for his ill-advised statements? You know, "theological leverage", etc.
     
    #69 J.D., Jun 27, 2010
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  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Ergun and Emir kept changing the rules --White and Ascol didn't. I know that's what you meant.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I haven't heard a peep from him since he made his classic statement.
     
  12. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    He has shown no venom.

    Liberty has not had an honorable history throughout this whole affair.

    Caner sinned publicly and needs to show remorse for his actions over the last nine plus years.

    Being demoted was an action -- but a far cry from what should have been done.

    What if Caner was a professor and still spoke at gatherings for the last nearly ten years? And suppose he lied just as much as he has for the last four years. Would you say he should have been given grace and hired as an assistant professor?

    Grace is wonderful. We are all sinners in need of God's grace. But there are legitimate consequences of sin.LU has not gone far enough for most outsiders to consider that educational enterprize as very ethical.

    Yes the decision is not ours. But I insist on speaking out on what I think are LU wrongdoings.

    Yes, but LU tried their best, didn't it?

    They tried to stonewall. Then they tried circling the wagons. They impugned the motives of bloggers -- most of whom are Christian. And the Muslim blogger -- Mo Khan was denigrated by the pro-Caner crowd with quite a passion.

    LU only tried something when the media became invoilved. LU wasn't interested when there was more than ample evidence from the bloggers. LU is too big for its britches.

    I know there are good teachers and students at Liberty -- but the leadership is in very bad shape.

    Too little -- and too late. And they took action not on principle -- but because their hand was forced.

    I disagree. They have not earned my respect.

    LU is into power plays. Secular institutions have dealt with similiar situations in a much more moral manner. It's a shame. It is a bad testimony.
     
  13. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Ergun Caner's Treatment vs. A Student Who Might Do The Same Thing

    To all who might have an interest:

    I follow the SBC blogs as all might imagine. I ran across one that counts the transgressions of Caner according to the "Student Honor Code." It is very paradoxical to say the least. Read it and you might want to laugh, or cry. Maybe both?

    FYI!

    http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2010/06/what-would-happen-if-liberty-followed.html

    "That is all!" (but probably not in this case?).:praying: :smilewinkgrin:
     
  14. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    yes, in my discussions with several of my fellow alumni we all commented about how many reps he should have gotten and whether or not the Dean of Students would be calling him to let him know his academic career at LU had ended and he wouldn't be getting a refund on his tuition.

    The irony of this whole thing is just hanging in the air...
     
  15. Peggy

    Peggy New Member

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    The Time Bandit crabboat on Deadliest Catch seems to have an opening for a new greenhorn. Maybe Prof. Caner should apply?

    In addition to his duties as greenhorn (gutting and chopping bait), he could try to get the guys not to swear so much. Just sayin'.
     
  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    I think all that Peggy means is that Caner should leave the ministry for a "regular" non religious leadership job.
    See, what Peggy really meant by greenhorn fish gutter was the captain of the ship, or probably an executive in a seafood company.
    Yeah, that's the ticket.
     
  17. Peggy

    Peggy New Member

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    He should work as a grunt to learn what real, honest labor is all about.

    I have a feeling the men on the Bering Sea would take him down a notch or two.

    Or maybe he could work with Mike Rowe on Dirty Jobs. Prof. Caner could do the dirty part of the job.

    I'm just saying that Professor Caner needs to learn the virtue of humilty. It would do him good.
     
  18. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    So, Peggy, you know him well? Do you know him at all?

    Who put you in the place of God to determine what he ought to be doing now? Must be nice to be able to place a penalty on him? Do others get that right when you're wrong? Or would you like to just let God handle it. I seem to learn from Scripture that He does real well.
     
  19. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    As someone who has earned his way through school as a janitor (think scrubbing toilets, taking out diaper-filled trash bags, cleaning up all kinds of horrible messes), as a salesman (knowing that I need to be ethical, even though losing a good sale would mean probably not being able to pay rent), doing construction support work (digging holes/trenches with a shovel, cleaning up excess materials littering a job site), serving as a pastor (made a grand total of $62.50/week + parsonage with no air conditioning of any sort located in West Texas), providing personal security for a billionaire family (and having people treat me as invisible or less than human), and now working a white collar position at an architecture/engineering firm, I can tell you that all of the jobs I have had have shown me what honest labor is like. Several of my friends are seminary professors, and they work very hard. It's a different kind of labor than most blue-collar jobs, but it is work nonetheless.

    May we all know humility. Especially when when we are standing in judgment of others. We could very well be in the same position.
     
  20. Peggy

    Peggy New Member

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    Whoa Tom, can't you tell when people are being sarcastic?

    That being said, I don't know the man but am taking the Baptist History course on DVD where he is the professor. Hate to say it, but he comes across as a know-it-all, pompous ass. Yes, I do think that a little work at a job where he has to produce results with his hands rather than his brain will do him good and teach him a lot more than being merely demoted at Liberty University.

    Paul was a tent-maker. He worked at a real job with his hands. And he was probably one of the smartest human beings ever to walk the planet. Is Prof. Caner better than St. Paul?
     
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