Life and death

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HisWitness, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    Gen 2-7: And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,and man became a LIVING SOUL.

    In Gen 2-7 we see man becoming a LIVING SOUL(inside of a body)
    I believe the SOUL was never going to die at this point.

    Gen 2-9:And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant for the sight,and good for food;the TREE OF LIFE also in the midst of the garden,and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Now in Gen 2-9 you see 2 trees-one was tree of LIFE and one of knowledge.
    Now the man's SOUL was already alive and living and wasnt gonna die.
    BUT the body was flesh and blood and was unlike the SOUL and it would eventually die unless there was means to have it to live forever .

    Gen 2-17:But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,thou shalt NOT eat of it;for in the day that thou eatest thereof THOU shalt SURELY die.

    Now in Gen 2-17 if adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil--he would SURELY DIE.
    BUT Adam could have freely eaten of the tree of LIFE if he chose to do so.
    So to determine the DEATH that adam was to die--lets look at it!!!

    The SOUL was already alive--Body was eventually gonna die being just flesh and blood.
    So the tree of LIFE could not have been for the SOUL because it was already living for ever --it was for the BODY which was gonna die being just flesh.\
    So the DEATH that adam was gonna die was SOUL death not BODY death.
    This is why God removed adam from gardenin perhaps that adam would eat of that tree of LIFE and live forever--Then Adam would not have to pay the DEATH penalty that God judged him with--so he was removed.Adam was gonna SURELY die(In dieing thou shalt surely die--remain dead Soul and body in Hell(Grave).

    Matthew 10-28:And fear not them which kill the BODY,but are not able to kill the SOUL,but rather fear him(God)which is able to DESTROY(put to death)both SOUL and BODY in Hell(grave)

    Ezekiel 18-4:Behold,all souls are mine(God's)as the soul of the father,so also the soul of the son is mine(God's).the SOUL that SINNETH it shall DIE.

    Ezekial 18-20:The SOUL that SINNETH it shall DIE
    Adam had DEATH to face because he SINNED the SOUL was going to DIE
    Just as it was with adam so was upon all mankind--FOR ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of god..
    And again In Adam ALL DIE

    And all remained DEAD SOUL and BODY until the Judgement and Resurrection.

    Psalm 6-5:For in DEATH there is NO remembrance of theein the grave who shall give thee praise!!!
    SOUL and BODY is DEAD in Grave

    Why do you think there had to be a Resurrection?? Because ALL were DEAD--SOUL and BODY.

    Psalm 16-10:For thou(God) will NOT leave my SOULin hell(grave)neither will thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    I repeat again!!!

    The SOUL that sinneth shall DIE
     
    #1 HisWitness, Jan 18, 2013
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  2. percho

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    And according to and as much as it is being reserved to the humans once to be dying after yet this judging. Scriptur4all.org Heb.9:27

    but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world,
    of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world; From YLT 1 Peter 1:19,20 Rev 13:8

    upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages, YLT Titus 1:2
    `For, as the Father doth raise the dead, and doth make alive, so also the Son doth make alive whom he willeth; for neither doth the Father judge any one, but all the judgment He hath given to the Son, YLT John 5:21,22

    The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world would be resurrected quickeded and given the judgement to give life to whom he will by resurrection from the dead. The Son is the resurrection and the life to those appointed at one time to die.
     
    #2 percho, Jan 18, 2013
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  3. HisWitness

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    And He did just that!!!
     
    #3 HisWitness, Jan 18, 2013
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  4. saturneptune

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    I think we just went over this point in another thread. If Adam had eaten of the Tree of Life before he was kicked out of the Garden, I do not believe he would have died physically. (that is, before he ate of the forbidden tree). That is just my opinion. God said to Adam, if he ate of the other tree, he would surely die.

    Now, would he have died because God prevented him from eating the Tree of Life? What would have happened if God slipped up (just as an academic exercise) and Adam did eat the Tree of Life after sinning?
     
  5. percho

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    I do not disagree with you, however being the Lamb was already considered slain, he Adam was going to eat.

    I am not real sure that wasn't for that purpose for which he was created. For methinks he was created for the purpose of bring about the destruction of him who has the power of death and it required death for that to take place. Redemption of those who had succumbed to that power would only bring glory to God their creator.

    Not sure I can prove all that from scripture but I think it is provable.
     
  6. HisWitness

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    who had the power of DEATH ? :)

    My thinking is that since sin and DEATH by sin came upon all mankind through Adam--That Adam is the one who had the power of DEATH--and Christ came to undo that which Adam brought forth and to finally destroy DEATH itself brought on by sin through Adam--DEATH was the FINAL enemy Christ defeated(and that was SOUL DEATH and not Bodily DEATH-as in my other post)

    I know others will disagree but its quite alright :) 1 man brought in sin and DEATH by sin-Adam 1 man brought in Righteousness and LIFE by Righteousness -Christ :)
     
    #6 HisWitness, Jan 18, 2013
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  7. percho

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    Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    True Adam brought death to all men.

    Of course you may think the devil is Adam.
     
  8. HisWitness

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    Yes i do :) in that text that is.

    Of course also i believe the serpent was also adam :)

    But even if the serpent was not adam--how could the serpent have power of death--all he did was beguile eve to eat.

    Adam is the one who disobeyed and brought in sin and death by sin so adam had the power of that DEATH :)

    Just my thoughts :)
     
  9. percho

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    Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:9,10

    Day and night, light and darkness, good and evil.

    Are not those two verses not really speaking of good and evil as day and night that is light and darkness? God and an adversary shall we say?

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness upon the face of the deep.

    And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    From the text of John 11:9,10 do you think we, textually could personify the darkness already on the earth as evil, the Adversary Satan, the devil, Azazel and the light coming in the presence of the darkness as God, good. The two divided into a twenty four period of evening and morning, the first day?
     
  10. HisWitness

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    I really dont see it that way :)

    I think the voidness and darkness was a result of God's Judgement on this earth ( i believe there was life here before that voidness and darkness happened--because God told adam and eve to REplenish(meaning there was something here on this earth before)even science states the earth as being old and other life here in the wayyy past . true we dont know about it or what happened but science has also told of major events that would kill everything that was on the earth . and jesus talked of the day(Himself while he walked with the disciples)being able to see the light and the night(when jesus would be taken away from them and have no light with them)
     
  11. HisWitness

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    there has always been a Satan for every time in history(meaning an adversary) different ones for different times--i still say there is no scriptural proof of a fallen angel named Satan--Do a word study of where the word Satan come from and the origins of it and youll discover something amazing.

    http://www.preteristviewpoint.com/index.html

    if you are interested go to this site and look at the study of Satan and Demons :) there really is some good stuff there :)
     
  12. percho

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    You have made my point, I believe the darkness from the judgement was the absence of God the light because of Satan who had sinned and been cast out of Heaven. This crosses over into your thread, "Satan and 1/3 of angels falling from heaven ? "

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:6,7

    For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. Heb 2:5 --- Does this imply that some world was/is in subjection to angelic beings? Was it the original earth that became without form and void when Satan ascended on high and God cast him back to the earth and removed his Omnipresence from the earth and it's surrounding atmosphere?

    Then God replenishes the earth with living souls subject to death for the purpose of destroying Satan the author of death. Death and darkness were present in verse two of Gen. 1.
     
    #12 percho, Jan 18, 2013
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  13. HisWitness

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    You keep giving speculation on a fallen angel Named Satan and giving the circumstances of the event that you say happened--when that event happening is no where in scripture--all someone can do is speculate that that is what some scriptures mean--but there is no clear cut evidence of that event even happening :)
     
  14. HisWitness

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    i would be just as correct to say that the word Satan means Adversary and that there were different adversaries all through scripture that it relates too--in the new testament the SATAN was the High priest and those under him that persecuted the church,killed the prophets,and even killed Christ--and that the High priest and those under him were the Powers,Princapalities,Spiritual wickedness in high places that the writer was talking about :)

    And when paul told the Romans that Satan would be Bruised under there feet SHORTLY--that Satan was the High Priest and those under him that were persecuting the church.

    This is what i believe-- and i have proof of the events really happening also.

    But these are just my thoughts--that site i posted has alot of good info on it..go check it out :)

    Also Peter was Satan at one point when he stood against Christ as an Adversary :)
     
  15. percho

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    Can you determine from scripture what brought about that judgement you posted and I put in bold?

    Did the sin of something/someone bring about that judgement, that took place before God said, Let there be light and he renewed the face of the earth?

    Now maybe it is speculation, however I believe you can find enough scriptural evidence of that sin having been done by fallen angels. By angels I mean spirit beings who can not die. Just as you would like to use the word adversary so also with the word angels being messengers could cover a broad range of beings.
     
  16. quantumfaith

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    (Insert head shake, with slight sarcasm)

    Careful Hiswitness, you are teetering near the edge of liberalism touting an OE position and in anyway invoking mankind's science premises.

    FTR, I too am OE.
     

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