Light by divine Fiat - 2 Cor. 4:6

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    2 Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light
    .

    It is not difficult to see the analogy between 2 Cor. 4:6 and Genesis 1:2-3. In both cases there is darkness. For example just prior to 2 Cor. 4:6 Paul says:

    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4

    In both cases, light is a direct results of the command of God.

    1. And GOD SAID, let there be light and there was light

    2. For God who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined...

    This "power" or the power to command light to shine in the darkness of the human heart is not of Paul but "of God"

    But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. - 2 Cor. 4:7

    This "power" is in direct relationship to preaching the gospel when the gospel is used as the CREATIVE WORD of God or infused by His power to call spiritual light into existence within the darkness of the unregenerated mind:

    "Of His own will begat he us by the word of truth" - James 1:18

    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.....And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." - 1 Pet. 1:23

    However, this does not refer to the gospel when it comes in "word only" but only when it "comes in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance" (1 Thes. 1:5). When it becomes the CREATIVE WORD OF COMMAND OF GOD, then it is the "power of God" unto salvation (Rom. 1:16).

    As the CREATIVE WORD or COMMAND of God it produces "the light of knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 4:6) which replaces the darkness, ignorance and blindness that characterizes the unregenerate mind:

    Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: - Eph. 4:18

    It is this darkened condition that "alienated them from the life of God" and thus they are SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

    This condition is reversed by the DIVINE FIAT or word of command in 2 Cor. 4:6:

    For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    This "light of knowledge" concerning God through Jesus Christ in context is the message of the gospel (vv. 5,7) and it is this knowledge with the hope expressed in the gospel that forms the "substance" of saving faith and thus the "hope" of saving faith, as well as BEING the basis for inward "persuasion" and thus the creation of faith in the darkened heart by dvine fiat.

    "For faith cometh by hearing and hearing by GOD'S WORD OF COMMAND [rhema]" - Rom. 10:17.

    Paul does not use the Greek term "logos" in Romans 10:17 that is the usual term translated "word" and conveys the idea of invisible thoughts revealed but uses the term "rhema" which is the common word to characterize any command.

    The "hearing" produced by God's word of command in Romans 10:17 is the same hearing mentioned in John 6:45 as a direct result of God drawing/teaching "Every man that hath "HEARD" and "LEARNED" of the Fahter COMETH UNTO ME." Hence, drawing by the Father is by the WORD OF COMMAND that produces a hearing ear and coming to Christ in faith.

    This word of command that replaces darkness with light in the heart (which darkness alienates him from eternal life) restores eternal life, creates faith and thus is the command of God that translates a sinner out of darkness into the kingdom of light or the effectual call.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jul 26, 2013
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  2. Van

    Van
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    Yet another bogus manipulation of scripture to try to make scripture say what it does not say. Let me count the ways.

    1) Paul is saying God caused the Light to shine in the darkness, Genesis 1:3. And in the same way, God caused the Light of His revelation to shine on mankind.

    2) Some men, those blinded by the god of this world through the practice of sin, the first soil of Matthew 13, so they do not see the light of the gospel of Christ.

    3) The power of the gospel of Christ is of God and not of men.

    4) But this power of the gospel of Christ is not only in the words of God but also in the Word of God who became flesh, Christ Jesus our Lord.

    5) Ephesians 4:18 refers again to those whose heart has been hardened, and therefore the first soil of Matthew 13.

    6) Paul's heart was not so hardened that he could not understand and embrace the gospel of Christ. So God's revelation was embraced by Paul, he chose to obey. All this divine fiat nonsense is found nowhere in scripture.

    7) No need to rewrite Romans 10:17, Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word (rhema) of Christ. Rhema simply refers to the words Christ spoke, i.e. His revelation passed down to His disciples and through the New Testament to us.

    Bottom line, all these mistaken views, have been strung together to make a case for Calvinism's Irresistible Grace, without ever using that term to avoid this thread being moved to CA forum. But "the hearing" produced by the "word of God's command" is just code for the gift of faith, the efficacious call, irresistible grace or whatever new label Calvinism puts on their mistaken doctrine.
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Unsubstantiated assertions prove nothing! I present scriptures with analysis you present opinions with no scriptures. Let the reader judge between the two
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Since no Biblcal evidence has been provided to prove that my analysis is contrary to the immediate contexts, but only personal opinions have been offered with nothing to support them, we come back to the OP and back on track again.
     
  5. clark thompson

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    God made a light for the physical world being the sun but He also made a light for the spiritual world being the Son and He will shine today thru the believers.
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    First, he must shine IN them for them to become beleivers before he can shine THROUGH them as believers.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    1) Paul is saying God caused the Light to shine in the darkness, Genesis 1:3. And in the same way, God caused the Light of His revelation to shine on mankind.

    2) Some men, those blinded by the god of this world through the practice of sin, the first soil of Matthew 13, so they do not see the light of the gospel of Christ.

    3) The power of the gospel of Christ is of God and not of men.

    4) But this power of the gospel of Christ is not only in the words of God but also in the Word of God who became flesh, Christ Jesus our Lord.

    5) Ephesians 4:18 refers again to those whose heart has been hardened, and therefore the first soil of Matthew 13.

    6) Paul's heart was not so hardened that he could not understand and embrace the gospel of Christ. So God's revelation was embraced by Paul, he chose to obey, Acts 26:19. All this divine fiat nonsense is found nowhere in scripture.

    7) No need to rewrite Romans 10:17, Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word (rhema) of Christ. Rhema simply refers to the words Christ spoke, i.e. His revelation passed down to His disciples and through the New Testament to us.

    Bottom line, all these mistaken views, have been strung together to make a case for Calvinism's Irresistible Grace, without ever using that term to avoid this thread being moved to CA forum. But "the hearing" produced by the "word of God's command" is just code for the gift of faith, the efficacious call, irresistible grace or whatever new label Calvinism puts on their mistaken doctrine.
     
    #7 Van, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2013
  8. The Biblicist

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    No, Paul does not say "on" but "IN the heart" of the person being saved.

    Only one of these soils is called "good" and it is not any of the first three. The first three represent different typse of lost professors. The whole context is about distinguishing between lost professors and the genuine child of the kingdom. The parable of the tares makes this clear. The parable of the drag net makes this clear.

    It only becomes the "power of God" when he uses it as His creative word to speak light into the heart of the elect. "For we are His workmanship CREATED in Christ Jesus" and "CREATED in righteousness and true holiness" and "came not in word only but IN POWER and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT and IN MUCH ASSURANCE." It is the "power of God" when God makes it His "word of command (rhema)" - Rom. 10:17b.

    The fact is that it is not EMPOWERED by God every time men preach the gospel. Light is not spoken into existence of a human heart every time men preach it. Men are not called out darkness every time men preach it.


    The Lord Jesus is called the Word of God for two reasons: (1) He is the visible revelation of the invisible God as a word spoken is the visible revelation of an invisible thought; (2) As God in the Flesh whenever He speaks by word of Command it is empowered to produce whatever He speaks.

    The scriptures are called the Word of God for two reasons: (1) They are the revealed will of God; (2) Whenever God empowers His written or spoken word it becomes His Word of Command.

    Sinners and Saints can violate the revealed will of God and do quite often. However, whenever God incarnates HIs power into the written or spoken Word it is effectual power to produce whatever God sends it forth to accomplish. This is what Paul is referring to in 2 Cor. 4:6;Eph. 2:20; Col. 3:10, 1 Cor. 1:26-31; Rom. 8:28-30; etc.

    Read the preceding context for heaven's sake. Paul says this is the description of the lost state of other "GENTILES"

    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, - v. 17


    He was spiritual DEAD and had to be "quicken" by the Spirit of God. He tells his readers that "when it PLEASED GOD....to REVEAL His son in me" (Gal. 1:15,16) just as he describes by divine fiat in 2 Cor. 4:6 did he become willing to embrace the gospel. Remember God revealed Himself to Saul on the road to Damascus but NONE OF THE OTHERS AROUND HIM were saved by this revealation.

    There is no "rewrite" as the word "rhema" is what God wrote through Paul and it is the WORD OF COMMAND because the hearing ear is given by God:

    Deut. 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

    Pr 20:12 ¶ The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

    Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.



    What is amusing is that I strictly provides scripture and scripture interpretation but you fella's can't and don't meet us on the same level ground of scripture so you have to start name calling to degrade our interpretation of scripture. I don't call you an Arminian but I deal with your interpretatation and demonstrate it is false.
     
  9. Skandelon

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    Biblicist,

    Don't you see your are just giving all unbelievers a really good excuse for their unbelief? Just affirm human responsibility and God's sovereignty and stop speculating at the rest, you are not helping anyone with a teaching the removes human responsibility.

    I know, I know, you don't think your doing that, but how else can this be interpreted? The non-elect have NO HOPE at ALL and they were born sealed in their FATE of death and suffering. The elect have no risk or fear of losing anything, they will be saved and eternal bliss regardless of what apparent 'choices' anyone makes. That doesn't promote response because it doesn't promote responsibility.

    You wanna talk about sounding like a democrat? Just keep teaching stuff that doesn't promote human responsibility and turn people into victim of circumstance (i.e. God predetermined choice) and you will be one of the best Democrats in the world! :)
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    *sigh*

    Your whole argument is based upon the fallicy that the non-elect and elect know who they are and on that basis respond according to your conclusions.

    Your whole argument is also based upon the fallicy that mankind is not already universally condemned under sin and justly deserve eternal damnation and are perfectly happy in their hatred and rejection of God (Rom. 8:7 "enmity").

    Your whole argument is also based on the additional fallicy that being "chosen to salvation" is a universal obligation by God rather than a privilege of mercy that none can demand and that none but those given to Christ by the Father will receive in spite of themselves and their enmity and resistance equally as others (Eph. 2:1-3).

    Hence, again, nothing prevents the greatest sinner from being saved but his OWN depraved resistant will due to his OWN participation in Adam and therefore has none to justly blame but himself.

    On the other hand none that are mercifully saved have anyone to boast in but the grace of God as they were "BY NATURE the children of wrath...even as others" but for the grace of God.

    Sin and its consequencses were not designed by anyone as sin is merely the absence of righteousnessness and it was "found" in Lucifer.

    The consequences of sin is inherent in the nature of sin - absence of righteousness that separates the sinner from the Holy God the source of life and can never ever be harmonized with, brought into union with a holy God.
     
  11. Skandelon

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    Not at all. Just thinking that our destiny is predetermined by someone other than ourselves, regardless of whether we know that destiny, can have the effect I described above.

    In fact, I know it first hand, as I used to be a Calvinist and remember thinking thing like, 'well I told that guy the gospel, if God wants him to believe it he will' and then leaving it at that. Instead of seeking to relate and reach out to him as I would now, I 'left it to God' because hey, if God wants him to be saved He'll do it.

    I've also counseled with a young man dealing with major addictions who came out of a church that taught Calvinistic doctrine. Because he couldn't lick his bad habits no matter how hard he tried, he figured he was predestined for Hell. He reasoned that God couldn't love a guy like him and that must have been why he couldn't stop his sinful actions.

    These may not be what Calvinists want people to take away from the logic of their views, but it is. The belief that all things are set and that we really don't have 'responsibility' (meaning the ability to really respond) of 'choice' (meaning the selection between multiple options) leads people to act the victim, to give up, to not take responsibility for their choices and action...after all they are just doing what they were created and predetermined to do. Like it or not, that is what this dogma typically produces...especially in the young and more simple minded.

    This is just blatantly false. Even believers deserve eternal damnation. The prodigal son didn't deserve the reception he got from his father because he returned home in humiliation. He deserved to be stoned. He GOT GRACE. Not based on his returning home, but based on the goodness of the Father. Our response, even a humble one like that of the Prodigal, doesn't earn heaven. That is ALL OF GRACE.

    INCORRECT! Once again you prove you have no idea about our doctrine. God is not obligated in any way to save even the most humble and faith filled follower on this globe...anyone who has been reading anything I've written on this board over the last decade know that is something I've consistently taught. I can point you to many older posts to prove that if necessary.

    So you don't ascribe to the "L" of TULIP?

    And how do you call it his OWN resistance when the decision "he" made in Adam was to 'become like God knowing both good and evil' and to disobey God's command....he didn't decide the punishment of that sin which would seal him in a condition whereby he wouldn't be able to respond to God's gracious appeal for his reconciliation from that original sin.

    Don't you find it suspicious that God's appeal to be reconciled from our sin can't be responded to because of our sin?

    Think about it Biblicist! That would be like a doctor finding the cure for cancer, then making an appeal for those with cancer to take the cure but they can't. And then the doctor saying, "The reason they can't take the cure for the cancer is because they have cancer." Not much of a cure...just as the 'good news' of your system isn't all that 'good.'
     

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